Slow death of Kindle?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by cellaris

Perfect. We don't all have the same preferences. That's why some people use certain e-readers and others use different ones. I use the same margins and line spacing on e-readers where I have Koreader installed (which has countless customisation options) as I do on a Kindle, because those are the ones I like (see attached screenshots). If you or others prefer different margins or line spacing, you will have to look for other options, which is what you have already done. But don't tell me that I have to use the margins, line spacing, or fonts that you like (and I'm not referring to you). Everyone has their own preferences, and it's normal for us not to agree with each other.

If you're using KoReader then the built-in reading software really isn't important. I don't use KoReader (I would imagine most people who use Kindles don't). I didn't even know it was still an option to jailbreak a Kindle and install KoReader. Have I missed something?

Choice is good. I wouldn't tell you what eReaders to buy or how to use them. I'm sorry if anything I said came across that way. I was simply stating one reason why I (personally) prefer other eReaders to Kindles.

Originally Posted by cellaris

If most people buy Kindle e-readers, it's because they prefer them to Kobo, PocketBook or Onyx Boox for whatever reasons they see fit. And those who don't like them have other options on the market based on their preferences. I don't see any problem with that. Those of you who are not satisfied with Kindle say so, and I, who am satisfied with Kindle, say so too. I don't think there's any problem with that either. Everyone contributes their own perspective.

Not necessarily so. I would guess more people buy Kindles because they're more easily found. (At least that's the case in the U.S., where i can go to Best Buy and pick up a Kindle — something I can't do with a Kobo or any other brand of eReader in the United States.) I'm guessing a lot of people who buy Kindles don't even realize they have any other choice.

Just so you know for any future conversation, when I talk about Kindle firmware I'm talking about its built-in firmware (and reading application). I tried KoReader on my Nook and PocketBook and, though I liked some of its features, overall I preferred the built-in reading applications and I uninstalled KoReader.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by cellaris

...But I think you're wrong to assume that they would switch brands if they knew about Kobo, PocketBook or Onyx Boox. There are many people who know about those brands and prefer Kindle. In my country, you can go to MediaMarkt and find Kobo next to Kindle. If you stay there for a while, you'll see that Kindle is the option most people choose. Why? You'd have to ask them or read their reviews to understand. If you only read the opinions on this forum or go by your own experience, you can easily be misled. I've always thought it's a bit presumptuous to believe that people make (bad) choices because they don't know any better.

As mentioned in another post, if Kindle equals eReader to you and you don't know any other eReader exists, you're not really "making a choice." You're just buying an eReader. To most Americans who buy Kindles (a niche market), Kindle equals eReader. I'm pretty sure it's different in other countries, but I can only speak for the United States. I'm guessing more Americans have heard of Nooks rather than Kobos because at one point (years ago) Nooks competed directly with Kindles.

[cellaris]

Just out of curiosity. Those of you who have had or still have Kindle e-readers, when you bought them, did you know that there were other brands besides Kindle? Why did you decide to buy a Kindle?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by cellaris

Just out of curiosity. Those of you who have had or still have Kindle e-readers, when you bought them, did you know that there were other brands besides Kindle? Why did you decide to buy a Kindle?

For me, the basic Kindle was the cheapest option back in 2011, when I was not financially well off. Later on I kept buying Kindles because I wanted physical buttons and Kobo models didn't have them then. I was quite satisfied with the Kindle UI at the time, so wasn't really interested in other brands. I started to grow dissatisfied with the limited options on Kindles only after I had been using a Kobo for a year or so, I think it was in 2020 or 2021. And of course Amazon hasn't released a model with buttons since 2019, so there have not been any Kindles I‘d want to buy even hardware-wise since then.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by cellaris

By the way, for those who don't know what new page interface we're talking about, you can see it here...

I have to say that I don't have any strong option on either of them, I may even like the never interface better because it makes it easier to jump to the next chapter. I skip chapters a lot as I often have the audiobook to and jump between them.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by cellaris

Well, most people could learn about any other brand of e-reader if they wanted to, just as you, I, or any other member of this forum know about them. If they don't, it's because they don't want to, not because they can't. Choosing Kindle without bothering to look at other brands is itself a choice.

Mostly local shops only had Kindles. Argos then added Kobo. Very recently one has Pocketbook. Mainstream media only mentions Kindle. Any books I've read mentioning an ereader mention a Kindle. I saw a Sony in a shop once. A short-lived gadget shop in Dublin just before the Kindle was released in Europe.

Amazon has over 90% of English Ebook sales worldwide and over 80% of paper based book online sales in USA.

I didn't even know about Kobo till about 2017, despite researching eink in 2007 and reading Gadget sites.

In mainstream news you'd think only Apple, Samsung, Google, Microsoft and Amazon, Nintendo and Sony exist.

So how would an ordinary consumer know that Kobo, Onyx-Boox, Pocketbook or Meebook exists?

Especially since the majority don't even buy a Kindle ereader, but read on the iOS or Android App?

Apple has Macbooks, iPhones and iPad.
Google has Android and their own branded tablets and ChromeOS/Chromebook
Amazon has the Fire Tablet, Kindle ereaders, Fire branded 3rd party TV, and TV streaming stick and is the largest Western online retailer.
Microsoft has Windows, Xbox and Surface.
Nintendo has Switch.
Sony has Playstation and abandoned ereaders 10 or 11 years ago.

There is no choice for most consumers as they don't even know there are alternatives to search for. TCL is in supermarkets and phone shops and a review of their Nxtpaper is likely to only mention Kindles and Kindle Colorsoft.

The Barnes & Noble Nook is only in one market.

As an alternative to Amazon Kindle store people are more likely to encounter Apple Books and Google Playstore Playbooks (which curiously don't sell well), not the Kobo bookstore.

Here is a niche readership.

[cellaris]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Mostly local shops only had Kindles. Argos then added Kobo. Very recently one has Pocketbook. Mainstream media only mentions Kindle. Any books I've read mentioning an ereader mention a Kindle. I saw a Sony in a shop once. A short-lived gadget shop in Dublin just before the Kindle was released in Europe.

Amazon has over 90% of English Ebook sales worldwide and over 80% of paper based book online sales in USA.

I didn't even know about Kobo till about 2017, despite researching eink in 2007 and reading Gadget sites.

In mainstream news you'd think only Apple, Samsung, Google, Microsoft and Amazon, Nintendo and Sony exist.

So how would an ordinary consumer know that Kobo, Onyx-Boox, Pocketbook or Meebook exists?

And at the end of 2025, will we still be in the same situation, or do you think things will have changed?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by cellaris

And at the end of 2025, will we still be in the same situation, or do you think things will have changed?

Not much.

[cellaris]

Well, that leads me to think, in response to the question in this thread, that Kindle is not in a situation of "slow death". If most users identify Kindle with "e-reader", if they are not familiar with other brands on the market and find it very convenient to buy them, then little has changed. General trends in e-reader purchases could change, but this would affect all brands equally. We would be talking more about the slow death of e-readers.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by cellaris

Well, that leads me to think, in response to the question in this thread, that Kindle is not in a situation of "slow death". If most users identify Kindle with "e-reader", if they are not familiar with other brands on the market and find it very convenient to buy them, then little has changed. General trends in e-reader purchases could change, but this would affect all brands equally. We would be talking more about the slow death of e-readers.

Personally I don't think Kindle is in the danger of dying either, unless Amazon decides to ditch eink devices altogether and leave only apps. At this point I wouldn't put it past them. But it's not very likely.

[haertig]

I imagine that most people buying Kindles are buying their first eReader, or replacing one that they bought a long time ago. They will know nothing about Amazon practices like killing D&T, like deleting books, like forcing firmware upgrades unless you jump through undocumented hoops to avoid that. They won't know, and even if they did, they won't care - because they don't understand the potential negative ramifications of these practices. Amazon (and other vendors) depend on this "customer ignorance syndrome" to sell all the things they do. They would actually be fools not to take advantage of it, since it's so widespread. The customers who are knowledgeable, care, research their purchases, and get upset about problematic things are such a minuscule fraction of their customer base that they may be completely ignored without consequence. Which is exactly what Amazon does. This is the world we live in. And it's going to get worse, not better. Idiocracy, while the dumbest movie ever written, was prophetic.

[nana77]

I recall the first Pocketbook Inkpad 840 being novel, having a screen of 8" and a resolution at 1200x1600; price was high for standards (240$ or 260$), but it was also difficult to purchase; iirc despite the Company is Swiss, they lately were sold in Russia (reading from online comments, by those times), before the release of other devices.
Btw, I'll like to mention that while the (fantastic) iPod Classic seemed expensive, there are devices now, not in stores, that goes far away from those price points (DAP devices that are at >1000$).
Sailfish/Jolla devices also moved on east markets, after a mild market in EU.

[nana77]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Especially since the majority don't even buy a Kindle ereader, but read on the iOS or Android App?

Apple has Macbooks, iPhones and iPad.
Google has Android and their own branded tablets and ChromeOS/Chromebook
Amazon has the Fire Tablet, Kindle ereaders, Fire branded 3rd party TV, and TV streaming stick and is the largest Western online retailer.
Microsoft has Windows, Xbox and Surface.
Nintendo has Switch.
Sony has Playstation and abandoned ereaders 10 or 11 years ago.

There is no choice for most consumers as they don't even know there are alternatives to search for. TCL is in supermarkets and phone shops and a review of their Nxtpaper is likely to only mention Kindles and Kindle Colorsoft.

The Barnes & Noble Nook is only in one market.

As an alternative to Amazon Kindle store people are more likely to encounter Apple Books and Google Playstore Playbooks (which curiously don't sell well), not the Kobo bookstore.

Here is a niche readership.

I guess that for any alternative device what's hard to match is the fact that manufactures won't take a project if there are less than e.g. 2 million ones to produce, that's why while starting a new one, by the time to get the costumers or backers in (like on campaigns - which is a market that has been also mistealding various times), the hardware gets often too old.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by cellaris

Just out of curiosity. Those of you who have had or still have Kindle e-readers, when you bought them, did you know that there were other brands besides Kindle? Why did you decide to buy a Kindle?

My first (and for several years my only new eReader) was a Nook Simple Touch.

It was curiosity for me when I first tried a Kindle I bought an inexpensive Kindle Touch at a pawn shop, didn't like it because the fonts were too light, and gave it to my brother. I then bought a no-touch Kindle at a pawn shop. I liked its simplicity and the built-in fonts were dark. (Later I learned you could side-load fonts on the Kindle Touch.) Once I found out I could fix the wide margins by adjusting... something... (can't remember exactly how now) on the no-touch, I used it a lot. Back then Nooks, Kindles and Kobos could be found at Best Buy. Sonys and Nooks and Kindles were available at Target. The only Kindles I bought new were two basic ones, 7th generation and 8th generation because they came up cheap on sale. I was more impressed with the 7th generation, the battery life was poorer on the 8th generation. (Both have now been sold.) I do like the clarity of the Kindle Voyage's screen, but I don't use it much as I've moved mostly to the PocketBook. (I learned about other readers after I found MobileRead.)

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by cellaris

Well, that leads me to think, in response to the question in this thread, that Kindle is not in a situation of "slow death". If most users identify Kindle with "e-reader", if they are not familiar with other brands on the market and find it very convenient to buy them, then little has changed. General trends in e-reader purchases could change, but this would affect all brands equally. We would be talking more about the slow death of e-readers.

That's basically true. Only those who come to this site and the Reddit sub-Reddit (and places like this) would really know about their options. For me, if it gets down to, if only color screens are offered, that will be where I completely lose interest in eReaders.