Peak Performance March 8 Event

[OtinG]

If, and that is a big IF, the results are close to same after Apple did away with the 5GB limit in iPadOS, then unless someone is on a sugar rush and/or hyperactive, I don’t see a benefit to spending extra money to get the 16GB model. I don’t really see any issue with a few apps getting closed down on occasion. Personally, I wouldn’t care if they closed every app after I was through using it. I doubt I get much benefit from keeping apps open, unless you can have an app continue to process in the background when closed so you can say watch a video or do something else on the iPad while waiting for the first app to finish whatever it was working on.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by tomsem

This is the closest thing I have found so far comparing performance on M1/16 v M1/8 on iPad Pro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bA4jc4J9NQ

Unfortunately he’s using iPadOS 15 beta, its still only June 2021, and apps would not yet take advantage of the higher RAM limits (even assuming it was true of the beta at that time). And even some of the other benchmarks should be re-done with a shipping version of iPadOS 15.

I just watched his similar test of the MacBook Pro M1 8GB and 16GB models. Although he played it down somewhat, the extra 8GB made a fairly big difference on the MacBook Pros, and I would assume on the MacBook Air M1s and Mac minis too. I get that he is trying to max out RAM usage, but on the other hand most people would never run that many apps at once. I would rather see a non-hyper testing example where they just focus on one app at a time, for example Final Cut Pro, Lightroom using a few thousand images, etc. That would be more realistic IMO. Watching his hyperactive test reminded me of watching a skilled flim-flam artist playing the shell game on a busy downtown street!

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by OtinG

If, and that is a big IF, the results are close to same after Apple did away with the 5GB limit in iPadOS, then unless someone is on a sugar rush and/or hyperactive, I don’t see a benefit to spending extra money to get the 16GB model. I don’t really see any issue with a few apps getting closed down on occasion. Personally, I wouldn’t care if they closed every app after I was through using it. I doubt I get much benefit from keeping apps open, unless you can have an app continue to process in the background when closed so you can say watch a video or do something else on the iPad while waiting for the first app to finish whatever it was working on.

It was around the same time that it came out that they were doing away with the 5GB limit. Even if the beta he was using had done so, none of the apps he was using would have behaved any differently as a result. I agree there’s not much benefit in keeping more apps open, if that’s all you get out of it.

And no developer is going to release an app that REQUIRES 6GB or more to do its thing, i.e. an M1 only iPadOS app. Not until the entire lineup uses M1 or better.

[David Munch]

Originally Posted by OtinG

ETA: I forgot to mention that the MacBook Pro 2014 ran too low of SSD space and only exported about 440 TIFs rather than the 487. So that means it would have taken longer to finish than it did.

…….

But in contrast it would also have been faster if the SSD hadn't run out of space. SSD's experience falling write performance as they start to fill up.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by David Munch

But in contrast it would also have been faster if the SSD hadn't run out of space. SSD's experience falling write performance as they start to fill up.

True. Unfortunately there wasn't much I could do about the SSD space. The MacBook Pro 2014 only has a 256GB SSD and it was already down to about 94GB at time of test. Whenever it falls below 100GB it slows down. I do plan to delete most of the files and most of the apps off of it and use it as a backup computer and for tasks that require an older 32-bit app. It has Mojave and can run 32-bit apps. However, I don't have many 32-bit apps left, so I am also entertaining the idea of doing a clean install of Catalina so it can still get security updates.

At any rate, the MacBook Air M1 is just plain faster all around, which is expected. It is much snappier, loads M1 optimized apps blazingly fast, even Lightroom and Photoshop, and it has an M series processor. Having an M series processor is important for multiple reasons. One that isn't discussed much but should be is that eventually all of the new Macs will have them and none will have Intel processors any more. Once that occurs, I expect a rapid deceleration by app developers to keep their old Intel based apps updated. Even the very fast Intel Macs will one day be left high and dry as far as apps go.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by tomsem

And no developer is going to release an app that REQUIRES 6GB or more to do its thing, i.e. an M1 only iPadOS app. Not until the entire lineup uses M1 or better.

Exactly! Smart developers are going to keep their apps compatible with the highest number of the most currently released devices as they can to maximize sales.

[tomsem]

That said, the target audience for demanding apps on iPadOS will have M1 iPads, not an iPad or iPad mini.

And if Apple were to release Final Cut and Logic that ran only on M1 (as rumored or imagined) it might clear the path for other developers to do the same.

[OtinG]

I still believe Apple needs to differentiate the Pro models with a truly usable computer type of file system and incorporate same into iPadProOS. I suspect in the long run that all new iPads will have M series processors, but not everyone would need nor want a "pro" level OS with a more traditional file system. iPadOS and iOS are typical Apple genius in that they follow the concept of KISS (to a degree). In other words they try to hide the complicated bits and hold the hands of the average user to make using an iPhone or iPad as easy as possible. They need to do that for the older generations which did not grow up with computers and often never embraced them. I'm rare within the Boomer generation, most of my generation have been much less knowledgeable of computer technology than GenX and GenZ. And there are at least one generation with people still living that are older than the Boomers, and some of them do use iPhones and iPads, mostly because they are easy to use. But Apple needs to get past the idea that all iPads need to be easy to use by everyone. They need to embrace the professionals and others who need and desire much more capability in an iPad Pro. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to care about that at the moment.

[John F]

Originally Posted by OtinG

I still believe Apple needs to differentiate the Pro models with a truly usable computer type of file system and incorporate same into iPadProOS. I suspect in the long run that all new iPads will have M series processors, but not everyone would need nor want a "pro" level OS with a more traditional file system. iPadOS and iOS are typical Apple genius in that they follow the concept of KISS (to a degree). In other words they try to hide the complicated bits and hold the hands of the average user to make using an iPhone or iPad as easy as possible. They need to do that for the older generations which did not grow up with computers and often never embraced them. I'm rare within the Boomer generation, most of my generation have been much less knowledgeable of computer technology than GenX and GenZ. And there are at least one generation with people still living that are older than the Boomers, and some of them do use iPhones and iPads, mostly because they are easy to use. But Apple needs to get past the idea that all iPads need to be easy to use by everyone. They need to embrace the professionals and others who need and desire much more capability in an iPad Pro. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to care about that at the moment.

I wonder how much of a need/desire there is for more capabilty in iPads. I would guess that it is high hanging fruit.

[tomsem]

The many platform restrictions that are intended to isolate an app from the system and from other apps, also work against having apps share data seamlessly and I think prohibit apps like Excel from having macros. And in app purchases cannot actually add a program module, only turn on features and add digital content. There’s a lot you can do with those restrictions, but there is a lot you cannot do with them.

There are rumors that XCode is coming to iPadOS, if this turns out to be true, then maybe it will open things up. Not obvious how they do that without sacrificing one of the pillars of iOS philosophy: Thou Shalt Not Touch Thy Neighbors Memory or Data.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by John F

I wonder how much of a need/desire there is for more capabilty in iPads. I would guess that it is high hanging fruit.

Maybe, but I doubt it is very high hanging. The crowd that uses the top of the line Macs would certainly be interested (assuming they are interested in iPads at all), and they certainly have the money to spend. An iPadProOS tablet would likely be embraced by industry as well. It could bring a heck of a lot more to engineering and manufacturing companies than iPadOS currently does, and in a much more portable package than a MacBook. Apple clearly goes after some high end markets with the Mac Pros and higher end Macs like the Studio. They might as well go after them with a truly powerful iPad that uses a powerful OS. The iPad Pros already have the horsepower, so Apple only needs to give them a much more capable OS.

I’m reminded of Bill Gates quip that no one will ever need more than 640 bytes of RAM; in response to Apple offering 1MB of RAM in an early Mac. I'm also reminded of the mid-1990s when both Apple and Microsoft said the internet was just a toy for playing around, so they both ignored it for a long while. Then Apple frantically introduced Cyber Dog and MS introduce Internet Explorer, affectionately known as Internet Exploder by the masses. Cyber Dog was a huge pile of doggy doodie, IMO, and died while still a puppy!

[salamanderjuice]

Originally Posted by tomsem

The many platform restrictions that are intended to isolate an app from the system and from other apps, also work against having apps share data seamlessly and I think prohibit apps like Excel from having macros. And in app purchases cannot actually add a program module, only turn on features and add digital content. There’s a lot you can do with those restrictions, but there is a lot you cannot do with them.

There are rumors that XCode is coming to iPadOS, if this turns out to be true, then maybe it will open things up. Not obvious how they do that without sacrificing one of the pillars of iOS philosophy: Thou Shalt Not Touch Thy Neighbors Memory or Data.

I think this has been a rumor every year since the introduction of the iPad Pro. At this point I'm extremely skeptical it'll happen. If it does it will cut into Mac sales, as why buy a Mac for iOS development when an iPad will do it too and you can easily test the app properly on same device?

[John F]

Originally Posted by OtinG

Maybe, but I doubt it is very high hanging. The crowd that uses the top of the line Macs would certainly be interested (assuming they are interested in iPads at all), and they certainly have the money to spend. An iPadProOS tablet would likely be embraced by industry as well. It could bring a heck of a lot more to engineering and manufacturing companies than iPadOS currently does, and in a much more portable package than a MacBook. Apple clearly goes after some high end markets with the Mac Pros and higher end Macs like the Studio. They might as well go after them with a truly powerful iPad that uses a powerful OS. The iPad Pros already have the horsepower, so Apple only needs to give them a much more capable OS.

I’m reminded of Bill Gates quip that no one will ever need more than 640 bytes of RAM; in response to Apple offering 1MB of RAM in an early Mac. I'm also reminded of the mid-1990s when both Apple and Microsoft said the internet was just a toy for playing around, so they both ignored it for a long while. Then Apple frantically introduced Cyber Dog and MS introduce Internet Explorer, affectionately known as Internet Exploder by the masses. Cyber Dog was a huge pile of doggy doodie, IMO, and died while still a puppy!

I would be interested in seeing the numbers for what the current "pro" devices.

The iPhone is #1, services is #2. Then the Mac; I wonder how much of this is the "pro" models. Then the ipad, and again, I wonder how much is the "pro" version. How many extra sales would they get from an iPadOSPro? How much would it cannibalize the Mac Pro stuff?

And FWIW, I'm not a marketing/sales/business person.

[John F]

Originally Posted by OtinG

I still believe Apple needs to differentiate the Pro models with a truly usable computer type of file system and incorporate same into iPadProOS. I suspect in the long run that all new iPads will have M series processors, but not everyone would need nor want a "pro" level OS with a more traditional file system. iPadOS and iOS are typical Apple genius in that they follow the concept of KISS (to a degree). In other words they try to hide the complicated bits and hold the hands of the average user to make using an iPhone or iPad as easy as possible. They need to do that for the older generations which did not grow up with computers and often never embraced them. I'm rare within the Boomer generation, most of my generation have been much less knowledgeable of computer technology than GenX and GenZ. And there are at least one generation with people still living that are older than the Boomers, and some of them do use iPhones and iPads, mostly because they are easy to use. But Apple needs to get past the idea that all iPads need to be easy to use by everyone. They need to embrace the professionals and others who need and desire much more capability in an iPad Pro. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to care about that at the moment.

So, if Apple "needs" to do this, how long do you think before they do it?

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by John F

So, if Apple "needs" to do this, how long do you think before they do it?

They should, but they probably won't. They are too busy schmoozing with Hollywood types, building a car that few or even interested in nor could ever afford to buy, and finding new ways to make tiny, incremental updates seem like the best thing since sliced bread!