BeBook Review - really a great device...

[tompe]

It is well known that pdf files can be slow on some readers. Especially if the font is included in the pdf file. So you should compare ordinary ebooks if you want a meaningful comparision.

[tcv]

Originally Posted by tompe

It is well known that pdf files can be slow on some readers. Especially if the font is included in the pdf file. So you should compare ordinary ebooks if you want a meaningful comparision.

Well, I think he did by the video he linked. They showed about a half-second to second refresh. It didn't seem all that terrible to me. I remember when I first saw the Kindle's speedier refresh and that showed me how slow the first Reader was.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

I am not impressed at all with the justification support on the Cybook. It nearly never is used and you get big hole in the text. Before they introduced justification the text looked much nicer since they allowed that some lined was not justified.

Are you perhaps confusing justification with hyphenation, Tommy? "Justification" refers to whether the right margin is "ragged" or "even". Being able to select whether a book is displayed with "left" or "full" justification is extremely useful, and unfortunately the BeBook doesn't currently allow this.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I second this:

I have at least 250 bought and paid for eBooks from two sources that I could download in LRF.

Please provide links to the stores - not for me, but for others not fortunate enough to have access to Sony Connect...

It seems the Sony apologists don't like me mentioning the fact that you can't easily order the Sony reader unless you're in the US (and now UK and Canada). But it's a fact. Yes, I have also mentioned there are a few options for the rest of humanity to order this device. Here's a comprehensive list, as far as I can tell, just so I'm not accused of withholding information:

Waterstones, B&H, Borders, Fnac, eBay.

There may be others. Be warned there may be some issues with after-sales support (i.e. none/limited) - others with direct experience are better equipped to address this issue.

My point is they (Sony) have made it very clear the rest of us second class citizens (of the world) aren't recognised as valid consumers. To follow their apparent logic, the rest of us should seriously consider other devices before buying a Sony and divert our dollars elsewhere - that is the only statement consumers can make.

LRF eBooks are also available from very limited sources, and the Reader doesn't support other common for-sale formats (e.g. Mobi). I think this statement is true, but again, if you know where people can buy LRF/BBeB books easily then share the info with all those on the forum who have chosen the Sony (if not already in a Sony forum somewhere).

Cheers!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

Please provide links to the stores - not for me, but for others not fortunate enough to have access to Sony Connect...

The "two sources" referred to are probably Baen and Fictionwise, both of whom sell books in LRF format.

My point is they (Sony) have made it very clear the rest of us second class citizens (of the world) aren't recognised as valid consumers.

You're being ridiculous. Many companies sell products on a regional or national basis. It doesn't mean that they regard people in other countries as "second class citizens"; just that there are reasons to only sell in those countries. In the case of Sony, as has been discussed ad nausiam in other threads, the issue is almost certainly that of regional availability of eBooks. It takes time to set up deals with publishers in the different countries and set up book stores, and there are legal reasons why, for example, Sony's US eBook store can't be used by people in other countries. Exactly the same reasons as sites like iTunes and Audible have country-specific sites.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The "two sources" referred to are probably Baen and Fictionwise, both of whom sell books in LRF format.

You're being ridiculous. Many companies sell products on a regional or national basis. It doesn't mean that they regard people in other countries as "second class citizens"; just that there are reasons to only sell in those countries. In the case of Sony, as has been discussed ad nausiam in other threads, the issue is almost certainly that of regional availability of eBooks. It takes time to set up deals with publishers in the different countries and set up book stores, and there are legal reasons why, for example, Sony's US eBook store can't be used by people in other countries. Exactly the same reasons as sites like iTunes and Audible have country-specific sites.

It's just frustration - for 2-3 years!

Finally there are alternatives to Sony, so I'm happy to emphasize that issue. Even though you can get around the shipping limitations now with a few resellers, it's still a restriction that doesn't apply to most of the competition devices. So that's worth highlighting.

I understand your comments on the store restrictions. I'm not convinced that's the main reason, but we'll see how (any) future "negotiations" proceed in other regions.

BTW, do you think Sony will expand their format support in future to include Mobi? Has that been discussed anywhere (I'm sure it has)?

And an obvious point - if Bookeen (CyBook) and Hanlin (V3, BeBook) can do such a good job of supporting multi-formats (not just Mobi/PRC, but FB2, HTML, CHM, DJVU, PDF, PPT, ePub, etc.) why can't Sony? With such a sexy looking device, surely they can see the benefit of including these other formats and making it that much more attractive? Is the Sony Connect store such a big money-spinner for them? In comparison, iPods aren't limited to iTunes-bought music, or even to using iTunes or Mac OS X at all.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you perhaps confusing justification with hyphenation, Tommy? "Justification" refers to whether the right margin is "ragged" or "even". Being able to select whether a book is displayed with "left" or "full" justification is extremely useful, and unfortunately the BeBook doesn't currently allow this.

I know the meaning of the words but I misread it.... I thought you meant that Bebook did not do hyphenation. I agree that it is a limitation that you cannot choose how you want it justified. But I am also unhappy with the change in the Cybook firmware they did when they introduced hyphenation. Since then I do not think the right justification works especially good.

What about this new Bebook version with WiFi? I saw a claim that it was going to be released November of December. Anybody know if this is true or what model it can be?

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

BTW, do you think Sony will expand their format support in future to include Mobi? Has that been discussed anywhere (I'm sure it has)?

And an obvious point - if Bookeen (CyBook) and Hanlin (V3, BeBook) can do such a good job of supporting multi-formats (not just Mobi/PRC, but FB2, HTML, CHM, DJVU, PDF, PPT, ePub, etc.) why can't Sony?

MobiPocket (Amazon) requires DRM exclusivity to allow MOBI on a dedicated reading device.

I like the "support everything" approach, but the "do one format well" approach can also work. This is what Sony started out with, and what the Kindle still has. This implies off-line format shifting, which Sony did not do but Calibre supplies.

[orwell2k]

Originally Posted by wallcraft

MobiPocket (Amazon) requires DRM exclusivity to allow MOBI on a dedicated reading device.

I like the "support everything" approach, but the "do one format well" approach can also work. This is what Sony started out with, and what the Kindle still has. This implies off-line format shifting, which Sony did not do but Calibre supplies.

The "do one format well" approach is fine if everyone publishes most things in multiple formats (a good idea) so you can pick and choose. But this is unlikely, at least in the near future, so for these devices to become truly universal, the "do many formats" approach is needed.

So, now that BeBook supports Mobi DRM, does that mean they cannot support any other DRM formats (e.g. eReader, LIT, Adobe)? Or is it exclusivity on book titles?

Either way, it's interesting, I wasn't aware that Mobi imposed that kind of limitation.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

So, now that BeBook supports Mobi DRM, does that mean they cannot support any other DRM formats (e.g. eReader, LIT, Adobe)?

Yes, that's probably what it means.

[bbusybookworm]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, that's probably what it means.

But don't they still support DRM Protected WOLF files, or did they drop that support with the latest update.

I know that WOLF is not really prevalent outside China, but both the Babeook and the Hanlin Branded versions got the update so I'm curious.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

iPods aren't limited to iTunes-bought music, or even to using iTunes or Mac OS X at all.

Actually they are. The only DRM music that the iPod supports is AAC from iTunes. When the iPod first came out basically the iTunes store was the only game in town (other than ripping your on CDs.)

The Sony Reader is the same. You can only buy protected eBooks at the Sony store... and ebooks from that store can only be read on the Sony. But, there are several stores that now sell unprotected ebooks for the Sony (baen, fictionwise, scifi-az, stevenjordanbooks, etc.)

If you are going to trash the Sony, please don't make false claims. I am sick and tired of reading the Sony (and Kindle) lock you into their stores. that is patentedly false.

BOb

[ProDigit]

Originally Posted by tcv

Well, I think he did by the video he linked. They showed about a half-second to second refresh. It didn't seem all that terrible to me. I remember when I first saw the Kindle's speedier refresh and that showed me how slow the first Reader was.

Do you think there's much refresh difference from device to device?
On paper there is, but in practice things are a bit different.
Like pdf and txt.. maybe the reader is slower to convert a color pdf to 8 greyscales than a bebook doing the same page to 4 greyscales..?

It'd be nice to also have a matrix on that in the wiki.. But for that, you'd have to test all devices with the same type of documents...

[tcv]

Originally Posted by ProDigit

Do you think there's much refresh difference from device to device?
On paper there is, but in practice things are a bit different.
Like pdf and txt.. maybe the reader is slower to convert a color pdf to 8 greyscales than a bebook doing the same page to 4 greyscales..?

It'd be nice to also have a matrix on that in the wiki.. But for that, you'd have to test all devices with the same type of documents...

Oh, I agree that in practice things are quite a bit difference. In my particular example, I saw the first Reader at Sony Style off-and-on for many months. When the Kindle came out and I played with it, I could see the difference.

It would be nice to be able to test all the various devices, but that doesn't happen anymore. I am not sure how it is in other parts of the world, but in the U.S. it's rare to find electronics stores with a very wide range of devices. It's even rarer to find said places with working demo units. Those shelves of non-working-unit PDAs were just too sad!

So, the best bet is to look into YouTube Videos, but even then the folks making the videos don't often have test units for side-by-sides. We all do the best we can.

[sheygetz]

Originally Posted by orwell2k

It's just frustration - for 2-3 years!

Exactly, and maybe this should have been stated earlier and then we could have gone without more than half of this discussion being about Sony and rights and thus totally off-topic.

Mind you, I understand you perfectly well. I read here and on teleread regularly and regularly get frustrated reading about all the readers or providers (like Wowio) or deals, that I cannot access. But that is not Sony's fault. They do not advertise in Nederland saying "F**k you Dutch moron, we have this super-glorious reader, but we ain't selling it you, oranje imp." It is you who reads about it in international forums. There are loads of cars (brands and models) that do sell in the US or India or whereever, but not in Holland. So? But there are few forums where the Indians would extoll the virtues of their local offerings and you could rant that they are inaccessible to you. So, while I understand that it suits you fine, that you could get a Korean/ Dutch reader to show Sony where they can stuff theirs, I think your diatribes are now bordering on the ridiculous.


Back to topic:
I would be interested for you to tell us some more about the different reading experience on your Bebook versus your ppc. Especially with regard to reading outside, at night, PDFs, LITs. And, before I forget, thanks for doing the review in the 1st place.

Hendrik