HTML TOC listed in .ncx? - Page 6

Hitch · 03-13-2016, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Let's just agree that Guido is an overblown thinks he knows it all and leave it at that.

Wolfie, mon sweet:

You have that luxury. I don't (as the community of bookmakers who do this professionally is fairly small). We'll have to agree that you likely didn't come to that point of view without some reason. ;-)

Hitch

JSWolf · 03-24-2016, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitch

Wolfie, mon sweet:

You have that luxury. I don't (as the community of bookmakers who do this professionally is fairly small). We'll have to agree that you likely didn't come to that point of view without some reason. ;-)

Hitch

My reason is I read his blog post and with my experience, I think he's acting like his was is the way to make eBooks. I would not do it his way.

MacEachaidh · 06-19-2016, 08:56 AM

A question about HTML ToCs, please:

I've read directly contradictory claims on entries in an HTML ToC; is it true that every HTML file in the epub needs an active entry in the ToC?

As I say, I've read conflicting claims, and the Internet being the Chinese Whisper Generator that it is, I don't know what to trust. I've tried making ToCs that *didn't* have entries for every file, and they still seemed to function fine (in ADE, and on my Kobo device), so what am I missing?

Thanks.

davidfor · 06-19-2016, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

A question about HTML ToCs, please:

I've read directly contradictory claims on entries in an HTML ToC; is it true that every HTML file in the epub needs an active entry in the ToC?

As I say, I've read conflicting claims, and the Internet being the Chinese Whisper Generator that it is, I don't know what to trust. I've tried making ToCs that *didn't* have entries for every file, and they still seemed to function fine (in ADE, and on my Kobo device), so what am I missing?

What do you mean by "HTML ToC"? My reaction is that a "HTML ToC" is a the contents page in the book. If so, that is just links to other parts of the book and hence can have anything in it. Only including links to chapters and not to the copyright, title or cover page isn't uncommon.

The other ToC is the NCX. This is used by the reader/application for navigation. Again, it only has what the book creator wants to put in it. Again, it is common for the cover and title pages not to be in the ToC. I have lots of epubs working perfectly well on my Kobo devices whose ToC do not include these.

But, if you decide to convert to kepub, it works better if there is a one-to-one relationship between the ToC and the HTML files. It will still work, but it can give some strange page counts.

Jellby · 06-19-2016, 12:23 PM

What needs to have a link to all and every HTML file in the book is the <spine> section of the OPF. But this is not a TOC, it's just a specification what the order in which the files should be rendered (i.e., which file to display when you go to the "next page" at the end of a file).

Hitch · 06-19-2016, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidfor

What do you mean by "HTML ToC"? My reaction is that a "HTML ToC" is a the contents page in the book. If so, that is just links to other parts of the book and hence can have anything in it. Only including links to chapters and not to the copyright, title or cover page isn't uncommon.

I'm sure that he means the HTML file that functions as the human reader's mthod of navigating around an eBook, if they are a) reading a MOBI, generally, or b) using some reader that doesn't use the NCX as its navigation for the reader, as opposed to the device.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellby

What needs to have a link to all and every HTML file in the book is the <spine> section of the OPF. But this is not a TOC, it's just a specification what the order in which the files should be rendered (i.e., which file to display when you go to the "next page" at the end of a file).

^ This. If there's some rule, someplace, saying that the HTML TOC has to have a link to everything, whoooooooooooo, boy, I'm in trouble. We make HTML TOC's every day that don't have links to everything. Spine, yes. The optional TOC? Nah.

Hitch

Doitsu · 06-20-2016, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacEachaidh

I've read directly contradictory claims on entries in an HTML ToC; is it true that every HTML file in the epub needs an active entry in the ToC?

Not only doesn't every HTML in the epub need an active entry, you can (theoretically) actively hide HTML files with a linear="no" spine attribute. (A typical case would be an answer key.)
Unfortunately, AFAIK, no major epub2 app actually honors this attribute.

As others have already pointed out, an HTML TOC is usually redundant if it contains exactly the same information as the NCX file. However, many ebook designer include it for cross-platform compatibility with the older Kindle mobi format, which doesn't support NCX TOCs. In that case it makes sense to mirror the NCX TOC.

theducks · 06-20-2016, 01:15 PM

The 2 forms (of TOC) can be entirely different

The NCX has display formatting limitations (like in the editor WYSIWYG )
My plan (personal use books only), is NO TOC Entry in the NCX unless it has add information

EPUB2 does not require an Inline TOC.
Many Publishers do. Some Conversions will need one.

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06-19-2016, 08:56 AM	#78
MacEachaidh Browser Posts: 745 Karma: 578294 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura HD	A question about HTML ToCs, please: I've read directly contradictory claims on entries in an HTML ToC; is it true that every HTML file in the epub needs an active entry in the ToC? As I say, I've read conflicting claims, and the Internet being the Chinese Whisper Generator that it is, I don't know what to trust. I've tried making ToCs that didn't have entries for every file, and they still seemed to function fine (in ADE, and on my Kobo device), so what am I missing? Thanks.

06-19-2016, 12:23 PM	#80
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,570 Karma: 20150435 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	What needs to have a link to all and every HTML file in the book is the <spine> section of the OPF. But this is not a TOC, it's just a specification what the order in which the files should be rendered (i.e., which file to display when you go to the "next page" at the end of a file).

06-20-2016, 01:15 PM	#83
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 31,249 Karma: 61360164 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	The 2 forms (of TOC) can be entirely different The NCX has display formatting limitations (like in the editor WYSIWYG ) My plan (personal use books only), is NO TOC Entry in the NCX unless it has add information EPUB2 does not require an Inline TOC. Many Publishers do. Some Conversions will need one.

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