It really is a shame that my e-reader doesn't have an SD slot

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by please55

It's not a straightforward answer but for me the option is always welcome - always. I can't think of single reasonable reason not to have one.

a) The expansion slot is a nod towards the future. A nod towards interoperability. A nod towards obsolescence. A nod towards uncertainty - somethings some groups have to be more aware of than others.

Bzzzz! DING DING DING!

Wrong. It is expandable memory, and thus does nothing that the original memory didn't do, except be more of the same.

b) It's a nod towards people of variable income who might not always have access to a computer or the internet.

If they don't have access to a computer, how do they get stuff onto the memory card? If they do so beforehand, why don't they just do so with the internal memory beforehand, as well?

c) It's a nod towards sharing without a middle man. And many more things.

Your own computer is a middleman???

Again, what does an SD slot do that the internal memory doesn't? The internal memory operates as a standard flash memory device, any time you can plug an SD card into a computer you can do the same with a Kindle...

I wouldn't be quick to assume the success of Amazon has a lot to do with them understanding people.

As much as I like ebooks, they are one of the must kludgy techs this past decade and they barely move the needle in terms of capability vs actual books especially on e-ink devices. So far they are still mostly analogue transfers rather than a rethink of what is possible with current technology.

That is an issue (or lack of one, depending on whether you actually believe it is a problem) that affects all ereaders equally.

How do you possibly conclude from there that Amazon specifically doesn't understand people?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I would pay $5 more for an SD slot. I don't have to have one, and actually don't need one now that I have 4 T3's, but $5 or even $10 for an extra feature that I would probably use doesn't seem exorbitant.

Some people spend more than that on takeout coffee or happy meals, which don't last that long.

Helen

And maybe you aren't the only one who thinks so... but now try forcing the same price point on all consumers.

Personally, I regard the SD slot as just as much of a waste as the coffee, and avoid either one.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And maybe you aren't the only one who thinks so... but now try forcing the same price point on all consumers.

Personally, I regard the SD slot as just as much of a waste as the coffee, and avoid either one.

Pretty sure I am not the only one who thinks so and it does not always cost more.

I almost always go for extra features in tech that I am reasonably sure I will use. 4GIG VS 8GIg, well I will even go for the 16 GIG on occasion as I will need it eventually. 1TB VS 4TB same thing unless the price difference is ridiculously high and sometimes it is. Never been annoyed that I have over bought, even when I did not use it often, but often annoyed when I cheaped out.
Generally I choose the middle ground and am overall pretty cautious. Frugal even. But if I want something, and I can afford the price I will buy it.

And regarding your earlier expressed concern about adding $5 to the price. I can sympathize well with that. But having several computers, most came with stuff I didn't really need but no option to get at less cost without. I have 3 DVD Blu-Ray recorders, connectivity things I will probably never use, free online storage in the 80 Gig range, which I cannot use for 7 months a year, so I chose to ignore it. Possibly cost me more than $5 when bundled, but often the price was more without. Go figure.

Helen

[theducks]

I suspect Amazon chose to limit storage so the typical customer would have to connect to their store, FREQUENTLY.
The typical customer can barely turn one on, let alone jump thru the hoops to get content from Amazons competitor.

Frequent connections = frequent sales opportunities

(Anyone have a guestimate on the ratio of with advertising to ad Free K4 and up models? )

@Ralph Sir Edward
Great point. I am clearly a have it in Inventory person.


There are spare Lamps (and Fuses) in my vehicles, house cupboards.
Jars with faucet washers, Screws n nuts, Nails

I buy replacements when I use the last spare: TP, Paper Towels, Soap, Cans of 'x'...
My shop has a goodly collection of tools for all sorts of DIY projects.

It is not that I run out of Beer, but I may run out of a particular brand of beer

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Pretty sure I am not the only one who thinks so and it does not always cost more.

I almost always go for extra features in tech that I am reasonably sure I will use. 4GIG VS 8GIg, well I will even go for the 16 GIG on occasion as I will need it eventually. 1TB VS 4TB same thing unless the price difference is ridiculously high and sometimes it is. Never been annoyed that I have over bought, even when I did not use it often, but often annoyed when I cheaped out.
Generally I choose the middle ground and am overall pretty cautious. Frugal even. But if I want something, and I can afford the price I will buy it.

And regarding your earlier expressed concern about adding $5 to the price. I can sympathize well with that. But having several computers, most came with stuff I didn't really need but no option to get at less cost without. I have 3 DVD Blu-Ray recorders, connectivity things I will probably never use, free online storage in the 80 Gig range, which I cannot use for 7 months a year, so I chose to ignore it. Possibly cost me more than $5 when bundled, but often the price was more without. Go figure.

Helen

Well, most any device other than an ereader is a multipurpose device where buying extra storage will eventually be used. And even MP3 players will need more storage for all that audio.

But if Amazon can cut the price of Kindles by NOT bundling all the crapware, or in this case components people won't use, they surely will -- it sells more Kindles, and generates more revenue. PCs are different, in that the hardware components are commonly used.
And the software offers actually cost nothing -- software makers actually pay the PC vendors to install trial versions of software, in the hopes that people will start paying monthly/yearly fees for it.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Well, most any device other than an ereader is a multipurpose device where buying extra storage will eventually be used. And even MP3 players will need more storage for all that audio.

People buy phones and tablets which don't have expansion options. Heck, in the Android world, even the ability to update the OS is an open question. (Unless you go with an alternative ROM, which is not for the faint of heart.) These are general purpose devices, yet people don't care. For some it will be a lack of foresight, for others they simply don't need it.

But if Amazon can cut the price of Kindles by NOT bundling all the crapware, or in this case components people won't use, they surely will -- it sells more Kindles, and generates more revenue.

What is good for Amazon and okay for the average consumer isn't necessarily good for all users. Having competing companies like Kobo is a good thing because they give those other users options. For some, it will be mundane things like being able to borrow library books. For others, yes it will be expandable memory. It shouldn't matter whether people have huge libraries, want to future proof themselves as higher resolution images are embedded in books for phone and tablet readers, have books mailed to them on SD cards, or modify the firmware to create more general purpose devices. It is not our place to judge their decisions, and we shouldn't be criticizing them for letting other people know that these options exist.

[please55]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Bzzzz! DING DING DING!

Wrong. It is expandable memory, and thus does nothing that the original memory didn't do, except be more of the same.



If they don't have access to a computer, how do they get stuff onto the memory card? If they do so beforehand, why don't they just do so with the internal memory beforehand, as well?



Your own computer is a middleman???

Again, what does an SD slot do that the internal memory doesn't? The internal memory operates as a standard flash memory device, any time you can plug an SD card into a computer you can do the same with a Kindle...



That is an issue (or lack of one, depending on whether you actually believe it is a problem) that affects all ereaders equally.

How do you possibly conclude from there that Amazon specifically doesn't understand people?

You didn't even attempt to address anything I said...

The memory in a Kobo Mini for example can't be taken out and it can't be exchanged. Its the very definition of not interoperable. It isn't a future proof medium. I can still listen to cassettes today even though every single tape deck I ever owned is gone. What does that have to do with doing more of the "same"?

As for my second point - an expansion slot allows someone to move data with less friction in the event of a critical failure. Yes, it is possible to lose access to a computer and have you e-reader fail but still retain your data because its not tied to the unit.

I think you are trying to argue for the sake of arguing. I don't think sd cards are needed because we don't have enough space or I have to have entire collections with me. I think they are a good idea because they free up data in my eyes. If I haven't clarified the concept well enough that I'm communicating the same meaning to you, I apologize for my writing.

[Greg Anos]

I'm using an ereader without WiFi every day. It's just no longer is in production. (it has a semi-standard battery. I'm on my second.) It is a Hanlin 6 inch. (a BeBook and an Astak) I expect to keep using them until the EARL comes out, or they finally give up their ghosts. Which might be decades...if I can keep getting replacement batteries.

No ads, nobody looking over my shoulder and easy to crossload.

EARL (if it ever comes out), will have such useless geegaws as walkie-talkie, topographic maps of the Continental US, music player, GPS, and a built-in solar charger. I may never use any these features, but it was worth it (at $300 a pop) to get a front-lit paperwhite reader with a MicroSD chip reader and a user replaceable battery.

It limits me to 128GB, (a full size SD chip is currently up to 512GB) but I'll live with it.

Finally, I don't see any reason why a e-ink device can't be multi-functional. No more so that making a cell phone multi-functional. An e-ink device can't do full motion video? So what? A cell phone can't last a month on a charge, either. Mutli-functional doesn't mean every function, just many functions....

[Barty]

Let's see. Apple, Amazon and Google nexus phones and and tablets don't have sd storage. Samsung, HTC, Motorola etc do. Coincidence? Oh that's right the formers want you to use their cloud service. (Well in the case of Apple, I think it's mostly because Steve Jobs didn't want extra ugly holes in his device).

Sadly, this is a losing battle. To me it's more problematic that they are attempting to lock down the hardware. Did you know that Samsung have a hardware trip wire that will tell them if you rooted your device? They will void your warranty. If Dell shipped a Windows PC that voided your warranty should you try to gain admin privilege, people would be outraged. Never mind putting a different OS on it. But this is all for your own good, of course.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by please55

You didn't even attempt to address anything I said...

The memory in a Kobo Mini for example can't be taken out and it can't be exchanged. Its the very definition of not interoperable. It isn't a future proof medium. I can still listen to cassettes today even though every single tape deck I ever owned is gone. What does that have to do with doing more of the "same"?

Because ebooks are not tied to the storage medium they come on. Not only is that the fundamental structure of an ereader, it is also why an SD card would work.

More memory is just... more memory. Not "better" memory. If the book went in on an SD card, it is still located somewhere else, yes?

Any method you would use to retrieve the data from the SD card could be used to retrieve the data from the internal memory as well.
Until it is too late to do so, of course -- but that applies equally to the SD card.

As for my second point - an expansion slot allows someone to move data with less friction in the event of a critical failure. Yes, it is possible to lose access to a computer and have you e-reader fail but still retain your data because its not tied to the unit.

Lots of things are possible.

It is possible to have the ereader and the SD card fail, and still have your computer work.

Your argument essentially boils down to: SD cards are good because they can serve as part of a multiply-redundant backup regime.

I don't buy that -- a multiply-redundant backup regime should not depend on your ereader having an SD card slot. A multiply-redundant backup regime should not depend on having multiple copies of data in use. A multiply-redundant backup regime should set out to be a multiply-redundant backup regime involving a RAID configuration, backup HDDs in the fireproof safe containing rotating data snapshots, located in at least one offsite AND one offline location, and backed up to secured cloud storage as well for good measure.

And because if all your books are located on the SD card instead of the internal memory, then only the SD card need fail, not the reader, and you are still down to one point of failure on the ereader.

Anyone relying on the SD card to stave off critical data failure is going to get fried more easily than virtually any other way. Granted, some people don't rely on anything whatsoever and may not have heard of "data" -- you are better of than them, at least. But I have to question why you are ignoring First Principles in the science of data retention -- no single point of failure.

I think you are trying to argue for the sake of arguing. I don't think sd cards are needed because we don't have enough space or I have to have entire collections with me. I think they are a good idea because they free up data in my eyes. If I haven't clarified the concept well enough that I'm communicating the same meaning to you, I apologize for my writing.

I think the problem is that your arguments are insufficient to describe why separate internal and external ereader storage solves the problem.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I'm using an ereader without WiFi every day. It's just no longer is in production. (it has a semi-standard battery. I'm on my second.) It is a Hanlin 6 inch. (a BeBook and an Astak) I expect to keep using them until the EARL comes out, or they finally give up their ghosts. Which might be decades...if I can keep getting replacement batteries.

No ads, nobody looking over my shoulder and easy to crossload.

EARL (if it ever comes out), will have such useless geegaws as walkie-talkie, topographic maps of the Continental US, music player, GPS, and a built-in solar charger. I may never use any these features, but it was worth it (at $300 a pop) to get a front-lit paperwhite reader with a MicroSD chip reader and a user replaceable battery.

It limits me to 128GB, (a full size SD chip is currently up to 512GB) but I'll live with it.

Finally, I don't see any reason why a e-ink device can't be multi-functional. No more so that making a cell phone multi-functional. An e-ink device can't do full motion video? So what? A cell phone can't last a month on a charge, either. Mutli-functional doesn't mean every function, just many functions....

There are e-ink tablets out there. The glaring difference between them and your average ereader is that they tend to cost a lot more and have hardware support for all the things the dedicated ereaders DON'T have.

It adds cost, and dedicated ereaders are targeted towards being dedicated ereaders.
The same way the iPod was a dedicated music player. Until they bolted on extra stuff and it wasn't a music player anymore, it was a multipurpose device.
The same way cellphones were dedicated phone-calling devices. Until they bolted on extra stuff and it wasn't a phone-calling device anymore, it was a multipurpose device.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

If you started similarly bolting on extra stuff to dedicated ereaders, they too would become... well, the Onyx T68 & Co.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

There are e-ink tablets out there. The glaring difference between them and your average ereader is that they tend to cost a lot more and have hardware support for all the things the dedicated ereaders DON'T have.

It adds cost, and dedicated ereaders are targeted towards being dedicated ereaders.
The same way the iPod was a dedicated music player. Until they bolted on extra stuff and it wasn't a music player anymore, it was a multipurpose device.
The same way cellphones were dedicated phone-calling devices. Until they bolted on extra stuff and it wasn't a phone-calling device anymore, it was a multipurpose device.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

If you started similarly bolting on extra stuff to dedicated ereaders, they too would become... well, the Onyx T68 & Co.

Please do link to some of these eink tablets. No, not the no name Chinese models, but actual tablets made by known manufacturers. I haven't seen one... Ever.

What I have seen are things like the Sony Digital Paper, but that isn't a tablet or an ereader. That is something totally different.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The fact that the Kindle is the best-selling ereader worldwide would argue against that -- I think AMazon knows what it is doing.

When you put all the Readers sold together that are not from Amazon, there are more of them out there then Amazon. People buy other Readers because it's not Amazon. Amazon is not for everyone. It's not even for some that own a Kindle. The Kindle is one of the most fixed Readers out there in terms of hardware and software and Amazon is making it even more fixed by plugging the holes to allow for jailbreaks. Amazon doesn't want customers to customize. They want customers who take what they get like it or not. If Amazon had allowed reasonable settings, I might have gotten one.

No, the vast majority do not give a darn. Then there is you, who is loud and vociferous and tries to seem like a lot of people in one.

I would not say vast majority. It could be a majority, but I doubt it's vast.

If Amazon is so all knowing, then why in hell did they give 2GB to the PW1 originally and then up it to 4GB? They did that because Amazon was WRONG about the amount of storage when they decided to go for the cheaper option.

No one really knows why Amazon did so, but there are theories ranging from:
4GB cards are now just as cheap as 2GB cards, to
Amazon is intending on ramping up comic sales, which need more space.

Either theory is more reasonable.

I don't think it's because of comics. I think it's Amazon made a mistake.

OK then, I agree. Any ereader without WiFi needs to have an SD slot. Now go find me one. Maybe even one made and sold by Amazon.

You know full well that Amazon doesn't currently sell a Reader with a card slot.

Maybe. And maybe it would still cost money for the card slot, and bulk up the device even if the motherboard DOES have a socket to connect to.

Yes, it might cost more. But given how much the parts cost and how much in bulk Amazon would buy, it would not raise the price much.

And since when do you "know the way Amazon works"???

I know how Amazon doesn't work. Amazon doesn't give flexibility. They don't give much in the way useful settings while reading. They don't want you to side load fonts. When it was found out that Amazon left a hole in the system to allow side loaded fonts, they quickly patched it so that no longer worked. It's just proof that when there's something that users want that Amazon doesn't want to give, they take it away.

And I still don't think it is too much burden to transfer them with calibre while AFKing.

What you don't transfer is reading locations and annotations. So those have to be looked up on the previous device.

Sure it would sell. But the people who would buy it are mostly people who would otherwise buy the one without... so what benefit is there in selling a device at break-even cost or a loss, if it doesn't generate more ebook sales?

People are buying now because it's what's out there. If they had a choice, I think they would go for the card slot even if it doesn't get used just to have it.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

People are buying now because it's what's out there. If they had a choice, I think they would go for the card slot even if it doesn't get used just to have it.

As much as I value the slot, I don't know that others do. In the smartphone and tablet realms, there are a lot of devices without card slots. I don't think any Apple products have card slots, yet they are wildly popular, and this is true of many of the android devices as well. My guess is that for every person who likes being about to have all their books or all their music saved on their device, there is at least one person who is rarely without some sort of cell or wifi connection that gives them access to cloud based services and doesn't want to bother with all of the management required to catalog their stuff and to move it to their devices.

[Shades]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

As much as I value the slot, I don't know that others do. In the smartphone and tablet realms, there are a lot of devices without card slots. I don't think any Apple products have card slots, yet they are wildly popular, and this is true of many of the android devices as well. My guess is that for every person who likes being about to have all their books or all their music saved on their device, there is at least one person who is rarely without some sort of cell or wifi connection that gives them access to cloud based services and doesn't want to bother with all of the management required to catalog their stuff and to move it to their devices.

Widely popular, sure, but I know many people who went to Samsung because of expandable storage, removable battery and of course, until only a short time ago, their larger screens.

There's a reason why Sammy does better than all the other Android phone makers.


On another note, when it comes to ereaders, I think they should have an SD slot and they should have audio support. There's no reason for an ereader not to support audio books. Audio books are just another way to consume novels. We're not talking about adding video support or health apps to a reading device. Side loading should be possible because not all services have all audio books. I like to read along with recordings sometimes and one series I own adds up to something like 8gb. So what, just because it's not that popular, I should not be catered to by any company that makes ereaders?

This is the same as saying phones shouldn't include accessibility settings for the impaired because the majority doesn't need those features and it costs the company money to program those features in.