Cory Doctorow: "Hardware ebook readers are a dead end" - Page 6

HarryT · 03-09-2008, 09:04 AM

Why should anyone care what this guy thinks? He obviously knows a heck of a lot less about eBook readers than most of us do here. Ignore him.

Barcey · 03-09-2008, 11:50 AM

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can't logically predict what people will choose to use. If you applied his same logic to paper books they're a dead end technology too. Why would anyone want to carry around a dedicated pile of bound paper that only does one thing, and only tells one story?

I personally don't want a dedicated ebook reader either but any technical design is a series of compromises and I don't want to compromise on my reading experience to consolidate to a multifunction device. The design considerations of what would make a really good reading device don't marry well with other technologies. There are enough people that love reading that a dedicated ebook reader will be a viable product line (IMHO). Not everyone needs to have one to make it viable. Maybe someday a wonder technology will come along to let me replace everything on a single device but I wouldn't predict the failure of all dedicated devices based on the dream.

I thought it was amusing that he compared the Kindle to the Wii in the story because IMHO it contradicts his argument. The Wii is a dedicated gaming device. I have a PS3 that from a technical specifications standpoint is a far more powerful device, plays DVD and Blue-ray movies, has internet browsing, chat, audio, media streaming etc... but the Wii is outselling it 4:1 because the Wii does one thing and does it really well. It also hit the price point people wanted.

majorusa · 03-09-2008, 05:01 PM

I purchased the Sony Reader because I have a lot of books in pdf format. I did this knowing the limited capabilities of this reader concerning the PDF. Still, in the decision making I considered the price and I really wanted a device to do only this: read books. That is why I refused to pay 700EURO on Iliad, a far more complex device. I like the devices that are multi-tasking, but here is a price-usage ratio. Why to pay extra features when you need only the book reader? I could see this tendency on the big It names. It is called bloat-ware. Cram a tons of features inside a products, allegedly to increase added value for the client. But I wonder how many people are actually using all the features of a product?

In my opinion, should a company will be able to devise a product with a bigger screen (sufficient to read A4 books), capable to show also colors (but it is not a must), without wi-fi, hand writing, mp3 player, video player but being able to open and refresh quickly the screen and supporting open formats will be able to sell millions of devices.

I really hate to read on the computer screen and I like to read in bed. I hate the feeling of the laptop on my chest and the heat and noise is making. That is why I paid 300 USD on the Sony Reader and thanks to the pdflrf convertor I am very happy with it.

But this is showing me another thing. The hardware reader is only a part of the job. The other part is the software and the possible future developments. Here the companies are reluctant to give control to the masses. It may end in a total new direction than the company intended. We, as consumers, are lucky though, because on the web are enough enthusiasts whose passions are producing tools to enhance some products that short minded designers created with a lot of limitations.
Will the existing readers disappear? I will answer with another question. Will e-ink as technology disappear? Since now the two are related we have an equation with two variables. And to make it more complicated, will electronic e-book stores evolve?

Only the future will tell us, but for now I am going to continue reading my book on the Sony Reader. And I am happy that I can do that.

Trenien · 03-10-2008, 05:52 AM

It maybe is a stupid question, but is there a way to see the percentage of mobileread's members whose primary reading device is a dedicated reader?

HarryT · 03-10-2008, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenien

It maybe is a stupid question, but is there a way to see the percentage of mobileread's members whose primary reading device is a dedicated reader?

Owning a dedicated reader doesn't mean that you have to stop reading books, of course. These days, I tend to read fiction on my Gen3, but have a lot of paper reference books that I really can't see an eBook reader as replacing in the foreseeable future.

athlonkmf · 03-10-2008, 08:54 AM

I can only respond with:

searcher · 03-10-2008, 09:51 AM

Publishers did not like ebook readers, because authors can sell their own books easily in sites like fictionwise.com

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-10-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenien

It maybe is a stupid question, but is there a way to see the percentage of mobileread's members whose primary reading device is a dedicated reader?

That sounds like a poll question, i.e.: What is your primary reading device these days?

Dedicated reader (Kindle, Sony, Iliad, etc)
Desktop computer (PC, Mac, Linux, etc)
Laptop computer (PC, Mac, Linux, etc)
PDA or smartphone
UMPC
Print
Other (not that there's much left... playstations and iPods mostly...)

This could even be a recurring poll, once a year for instance, to gauge reader evolution.

astra · 03-10-2008, 11:16 AM

What is UMPC?

DaleDe · 03-10-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra

What is UMPC?

UMPC is an acronym for Ultra Mobile Personal Computer.

Check the wiki for more details.

Dale

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-10-2008, 12:16 PM

My bad! (I forgot to spell it out.) Should have given an example, too, like the Asus EEE PC.

tsgreer · 03-10-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Why should anyone care what this guy thinks? He obviously knows a heck of a lot less about eBook readers than most of us do here. Ignore him.

Ha! Harry, you always get right to the point without any fuss. Well said.

NatCh · 03-10-2008, 04:59 PM

He does have a way of expressing himself, doesn't he?

blunty · 03-11-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffC

OK, multi-purpose machines may come along, but there is no guarantee they will support the file structure of your books in the long term ....
and here and now, my 'need' is for a dedicated bit of hardware ... something like me - simple

that allows me to pick and choose a 'book' and read it without interruption, very portable - and because it tends to be easier on the eye ( ? ) black text on white .....

Sounds like a pbook to me, and without the worry of formats in 5-10 years time.

For me its pbooks for laying around reading (including in the bath) and ebooks for reading on the commute, and I am quite happy to go for the egg-laying-wool-pig thing the Germans have.
Still waiting for these dedicated readers to be on sale in the UK though.

bob_ninja · 03-12-2008, 03:35 PM

Still reading through all the posts, so much .... Just wanted to add my 2c

There is no question that e-ink based devices will add more capability as the basic e-ink display technology is perfected. It is clear that additional functions, PDA like capability does make sense and would well complement the basic reading function. In a way eReaders might converge with PDAs/phones/other-small-gizmos over time.

For the short term he is basically right that the current high cost eReaders will remain a niche and basically wrong that people will prefer other electronics for reading because they have more functions.

Sure iPhone and iPods and other gizmos can do a lot of things. They can also eat their batteries in less than 24 hours and fail to maintain their basic functions like making phone calls!?!?! He also neglected to mention adverse health effects of smaller devices. The crack berry thumbs, eye problems with active screens, ADD, etc.

More and more those gizmos have all kinds of problems that are becoming increasingly annoying. Apple wants to control what apps you run on your phone. Service providers want to push ads. Nobody will let you replace dead battery, at least not easily. etc. Compared to niche market of eReaders where companies are much more responsive. we actually post requests for next firmware or next hadrware version and *EXPECT* companies to listen. Try that with Apple

eReaders do/will have a role to play, albeit not a mass market size. Still, they will maintain a sizable market space, things like education, healt, and even some general public reading books market because they are well designed and suited for reading even if not answering to all the other ADD functions (watch videos, IMs, etc.) The lack of that bling bling (colours please) *IS* a feature!

For instance, I was happy to give up all my Palm Zire71 PDA functions to gain 2 simple things - better screen (my eyes hurt) and long battery life (PDA going dead when battery becomes old). So I think his piece is more or less correct, but too critical. The multi-super-mega-functional gizmos themselves are have increasingly more problems which will make them less appealing.

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03-09-2008, 09:04 AM	#76
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,557 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Why should anyone care what this guy thinks? He obviously knows a heck of a lot less about eBook readers than most of us do here. Ignore him.

03-09-2008, 11:50 AM	#77
Barcey Wizard Posts: 1,531 Karma: 8059866 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Canada Device: Kobo H2O / Aura HD / Glo / iPad3	Well everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can't logically predict what people will choose to use. If you applied his same logic to paper books they're a dead end technology too. Why would anyone want to carry around a dedicated pile of bound paper that only does one thing, and only tells one story? I personally don't want a dedicated ebook reader either but any technical design is a series of compromises and I don't want to compromise on my reading experience to consolidate to a multifunction device. The design considerations of what would make a really good reading device don't marry well with other technologies. There are enough people that love reading that a dedicated ebook reader will be a viable product line (IMHO). Not everyone needs to have one to make it viable. Maybe someday a wonder technology will come along to let me replace everything on a single device but I wouldn't predict the failure of all dedicated devices based on the dream. I thought it was amusing that he compared the Kindle to the Wii in the story because IMHO it contradicts his argument. The Wii is a dedicated gaming device. I have a PS3 that from a technical specifications standpoint is a far more powerful device, plays DVD and Blue-ray movies, has internet browsing, chat, audio, media streaming etc... but the Wii is outselling it 4:1 because the Wii does one thing and does it really well. It also hit the price point people wanted.

03-09-2008, 05:01 PM	#78
majorusa Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Sony PRS-505	I purchased the Sony Reader because I have a lot of books in pdf format. I did this knowing the limited capabilities of this reader concerning the PDF. Still, in the decision making I considered the price and I really wanted a device to do only this: read books. That is why I refused to pay 700EURO on Iliad, a far more complex device. I like the devices that are multi-tasking, but here is a price-usage ratio. Why to pay extra features when you need only the book reader? I could see this tendency on the big It names. It is called bloat-ware. Cram a tons of features inside a products, allegedly to increase added value for the client. But I wonder how many people are actually using all the features of a product? In my opinion, should a company will be able to devise a product with a bigger screen (sufficient to read A4 books), capable to show also colors (but it is not a must), without wi-fi, hand writing, mp3 player, video player but being able to open and refresh quickly the screen and supporting open formats will be able to sell millions of devices. I really hate to read on the computer screen and I like to read in bed. I hate the feeling of the laptop on my chest and the heat and noise is making. That is why I paid 300 USD on the Sony Reader and thanks to the pdflrf convertor I am very happy with it. But this is showing me another thing. The hardware reader is only a part of the job. The other part is the software and the possible future developments. Here the companies are reluctant to give control to the masses. It may end in a total new direction than the company intended. We, as consumers, are lucky though, because on the web are enough enthusiasts whose passions are producing tools to enhance some products that short minded designers created with a lot of limitations. Will the existing readers disappear? I will answer with another question. Will e-ink as technology disappear? Since now the two are related we have an equation with two variables. And to make it more complicated, will electronic e-book stores evolve? Only the future will tell us, but for now I am going to continue reading my book on the Sony Reader. And I am happy that I can do that.

03-10-2008, 05:52 AM	#79
Trenien Groupie Posts: 173 Karma: 3277 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: Librie, eReader, Kobo Glo	It maybe is a stupid question, but is there a way to see the percentage of mobileread's members whose primary reading device is a dedicated reader?

03-10-2008, 08:54 AM	#81
athlonkmf Guru Posts: 714 Karma: 1014039 Join Date: May 2007 Device: Sony PRS-500, Sony PRS-505, Kindle 3, Sony PRS350, iPad 64GB	I can only respond with:

03-10-2008, 09:51 AM	#82
searcher Connoisseur Posts: 58 Karma: 344 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Sony PRS-500, PRS-505	Publishers did not like ebook readers, because authors can sell their own books easily in sites like fictionwise.com

03-10-2008, 11:16 AM	#84
astra The Introvert Posts: 8,307 Karma: 1000077497 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: United Kingdom Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500	What is UMPC?

03-10-2008, 12:16 PM	#86
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	My bad! (I forgot to spell it out.) Should have given an example, too, like the Asus EEE PC.

03-10-2008, 04:59 PM	#88
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	He does have a way of expressing himself, doesn't he?

03-12-2008, 03:35 PM	#90
bob_ninja Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 582 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: Zire71	Still reading through all the posts, so much .... Just wanted to add my 2c There is no question that e-ink based devices will add more capability as the basic e-ink display technology is perfected. It is clear that additional functions, PDA like capability does make sense and would well complement the basic reading function. In a way eReaders might converge with PDAs/phones/other-small-gizmos over time. For the short term he is basically right that the current high cost eReaders will remain a niche and basically wrong that people will prefer other electronics for reading because they have more functions. Sure iPhone and iPods and other gizmos can do a lot of things. They can also eat their batteries in less than 24 hours and fail to maintain their basic functions like making phone calls!?!?! He also neglected to mention adverse health effects of smaller devices. The crack berry thumbs, eye problems with active screens, ADD, etc. More and more those gizmos have all kinds of problems that are becoming increasingly annoying. Apple wants to control what apps you run on your phone. Service providers want to push ads. Nobody will let you replace dead battery, at least not easily. etc. Compared to niche market of eReaders where companies are much more responsive. we actually post requests for next firmware or next hadrware version and EXPECT companies to listen. Try that with Apple eReaders do/will have a role to play, albeit not a mass market size. Still, they will maintain a sizable market space, things like education, healt, and even some general public reading books market because they are well designed and suited for reading even if not answering to all the other ADD functions (watch videos, IMs, etc.) The lack of that bling bling (colours please) IS a feature! For instance, I was happy to give up all my Palm Zire71 PDA functions to gain 2 simple things - better screen (my eyes hurt) and long battery life (PDA going dead when battery becomes old). So I think his piece is more or less correct, but too critical. The multi-super-mega-functional gizmos themselves are have increasingly more problems which will make them less appealing.

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