Access to Knowledge: YEA or NAY

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

What is this us "you" speak of? Is it not the universe itself? I might think that things are seen with different perspectives from time to time, but I doubt very much that anything besides everything has ever been created.

No, it is not the universe itself. You can doubt that anything has been created, but that is simply false.

Yes it is easy for someone to say, "I wrote that please pay me if you read it", but it is just as easy for someone else to say "Everything that has been, is, or will ever be written is already so." Both views can be considered correct yes? Where is logic?

You could say that, but it wouldn't mean a thing. Both views cannot be considered correct. Even if we were to stipulate that from a point of view outside of the universe that there is no distinction between past and present (which itself assumes that there is an outside to the universe, and assumes that someone outside the universe can observe the universe), it still doesn't mean that the author didn't write the book.

The author has to make a living somehow. If not from writing books, then the author has to take a job to make a living. That means that the author can only write in spare time. So the books don't get written.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Yes it is easy for someone to say, "I wrote that please pay me if you read it", but it is just as easy for someone else to say "Everything that has been, is, or will ever be written is already so." Both views can be considered correct yes? Where is logic?

That is not logical. It sounds like you are referring to block-time but the quantum uncertainty principle has mostly ruled this out. The future has yet to be written...

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

The author has to make a living somehow. If not from writing books, then the author has to take a job to make a living. That means that the author can only write in spare time. So the books don't get written.

Spare time? How do we not know that most books are not written in this spare time anyway?? At least for books by previously unobserved authors. How much time does someone need to write a book anyway? This is of course a bit rhetorical, every book and every writer will require differing amounts of time. But what if the best literature is produced in these spare time moments?

The future is dependent on the present which is dependent on the past, or rather all things are happening.

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

I agree to so such thing. That you download what you feel like downloading doesn't mean that you are justified in doing so.



Neither of us have been outside of the universe, so we can't confirm that wild speculation. Certainly from within the universe, where we actually live, people create things. If the author didn't create it, who did?

Logic works, illogic doesn't.

Authors don't create books, it's just a machine randomly dropping toothpicks. When the toothpicks make a word the machine types it into a file. After this happens a few hundred thousand times, a book is born.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Authors don't create books, it's just a machine randomly dropping toothpicks. When the toothpicks make a word the machine types it into a file. After this happens a few hundred thousand times, a book is born.

Are you referring to free will?

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Authors don't create books, it's just a machine randomly dropping toothpicks. When the toothpicks make a word the machine types it into a file. After this happens a few hundred thousand times, a book is born.

Now that's just plain silly. We live in the 21st century and the process has been modernized tremendously. Books are now written by software that uses random number generators that select grammatical structures and words from dictionaries. These dictionaries include weightings based upon common usage, genre, and stylistic considerations. These machines also use a considerable amount of state information in order to maintain a high degree of consistency in writing, plot, settings, characters, etc..

In otherwords, not only does information want to be free ... it is generated for free.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Now that's just plain silly. We live in the 21st century and the process has been modernized tremendously. Books are now written by software that uses random number generators that select grammatical structures and words from dictionaries. These dictionaries include weightings based upon common usage, genre, and stylistic considerations. These machines also use a considerable amount of state information in order to maintain a high degree of consistency in writing, plot, settings, characters, etc..

In otherwords, not only does information want to be free ... it is generated for free.

Looks like the OP got his ideas from one of these books randomly created by such software.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

Now that's just plain silly. We live in the 21st century and the process has been modernized tremendously. Books are now written by software that uses random number generators that select grammatical structures and words from dictionaries. These dictionaries include weightings based upon common usage, genre, and stylistic considerations. These machines also use a considerable amount of state information in order to maintain a high degree of consistency in writing, plot, settings, characters, etc..

In otherwords, not only does information want to be free ... it is generated for free.

Now that's just ridiculous, if the machine selects grammatical structures, how do you explain Dan Brown

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Spare time? How do we not know that most books are not written in this spare time anyway?? At least for books by previously unobserved authors. How much time does someone need to write a book anyway? This is of course a bit rhetorical, every book and every writer will require differing amounts of time. But what if the best literature is produced in these spare time moments?

The future is dependent on the present which is dependent on the past, or rather all things are happening.

Then read those books written in people's spare time. Such books are already available, but you don't want them. There's nothing rhetorical about it. The best literature tends not to be written by people in a their few spare moments, it tends to be written by people who are able to devote themselves full time to writing. And even if someone does produce a really good book in their spare time, they would produce more good works if they were able to dedicate themselves full time. Da Vinci's work would have been diminished if he hadn't been able to devote himself to it full time.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Authors don't create books, it's just a machine randomly dropping toothpicks. When the toothpicks make a word the machine types it into a file. After this happens a few hundred thousand times, a book is born.

I see you've been outside the universe...

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by The Terminator

Authors don't create books, it's just a machine randomly dropping toothpicks. When the toothpicks make a word the machine types it into a file. After this happens a few hundred thousand times, a book is born.

I had no idea the process of creating books was so complex....

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by QuantumIguana

Then read those books written in people's spare time. Such books are already available, but you don't want them. There's nothing rhetorical about it. The best literature tends not to be written by people in a their few spare moments, it tends to be written by people who are able to devote themselves full time to writing. And even if someone does produce a really good book in their spare time, they would produce more good works if they were able to dedicate themselves full time. Da Vinci's work would have been diminished if he hadn't been able to devote himself to it full time.

I want access to all books, even those written in spare time. Best is a very "subjective" term.

If this spare time is so valuable, and more of it results in more worthwhile art, why are we not devoting more resources to create more spare time? I would love to be able to wake up and say, "Well, looks like all my time is spare today, I think I will create."

Davinci's work was his art.

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I want access to all books, even those written in spare time. Best is a very "subjective" term.

Are you sure? Since you don't want authors to be able to make a living from writing, the only available alternative is that they write in their spare time. And best is subjective, but not totally so.

If this spare time is so valuable, and more of it results in more worthwhile art, why are we not devoting more resources to create more spare time? I would love to be able to wake up and say, "Well, looks like all my time is spare today, I think I will create."

We have that already. We get that buy paying for books. That gives authors the free time to write.

Davinci's work was his art.

Yes, but you miss the point. He was able to create because he didn't have to have a day job.

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Yes it is easy for someone to say, "I wrote that please pay me if you read it", but it is just as easy for someone else to say "Everything that has been, is, or will ever be written is already so." Both views can be considered correct yes? Where is logic?

Sophistry again!

If I wrote something, I can establish ways of proving that authorship (whether I do or not is a separate question). On the flip side, you cannot prove that everything that ever will be written has already been written.

As proof, I ask you to provide me all the new books that will be published in 2023 AD; you have twenty-four hours starting now (I will even pay for them)

--
Bill

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Sophistry again!

If I wrote something, I can establish ways of proving that authorship (whether I do or not is a separate question). On the flip side, you cannot prove that everything that ever will be written has already been written.

As proof, I ask you to provide me all the new books that will be published in 2023 AD; you have twenty-four hours starting now (I will even pay for them)

--
Bill

If he's able to view the universe from the outside, that should be no problem.