Kindle Page Number Proposal

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by pruss

My feeling is that there is a divide between the needs of casual readers who tend to proceed linearly through a text and serious students of a text. Of course, there are way more of the former, so it makes sense for the Kindle to be optimized for them.

Exactly. Put the info for the majority of users as the default, and the scholar/book club member can bring up the menu to show a universal/accurate number for sharing/referencing.

[DiapDealer]

Do you also think the average consumer would prefer locations over screen numbers? Would they understand locations immediately (in a way that they can use and rely on them immediately)?

I can't speak for everyone... only myself. And the answer is yes; I took to locations immediately. Like a duck after a junebug. No confusion whatsoever (and I'm just a little ol' fiction novel reader). But whatever floats the majority's boat. It won't really be any skin of my back either way. It's just a number that tells me (or someone else) exactly where something is in the text. One works just as good as the other (provided that changing personal user settings doesn't change the page number of what I'm trying to reference, of course)

[Larla]

It seems pretty straight-forward to me -- if you want the e-book to simulate a book then the e-book has pages that you turn and you have page numbers that correspond to each page.

They have chosen to implement each screen as a page so what could be more logical than to have a screen number for each screen. As a bonus, since a computer is presenting these screens, it can calculate the total number of screens in the book (give the current font size & spacing) and display that number as part of the "page number" i.e. page 100 of 300.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Larla

It seems pretty straight-forward to me -- if you want the e-book to simulate a book then the e-book has pages that you turn and you have page numbers that correspond to each page.

They have chosen to implement each screen as a page so what could be more logical than to have a screen number for each screen. As a bonus, since a computer is presenting these screens, it can calculate the total number of screens in the book (give the current font size & spacing) and display that number as part of the "page number" i.e. page 100 of 300.

Unfortunately that's completely useless for referring to a point in the book. Your page 125 is almost certainly not going to be the same as somebody else's page 125. Why do you actually care how many screens you've gone through?

[DiapDealer]

It seems pretty straight-forward to me -- if you want the e-book to simulate a book then the e-book has pages that you turn and you have page numbers that correspond to each page.

I have no interest in having an ebook exactly simulate the experience of a reading a physical book. If I wanted that... I'd read physical books and completely echew ebooks.

I don't want to touch the "pages" to turn them. I don't want to turn my ereader over to read the words printed on the opposite screen. I don't want multiple, entirely blank screens separating sections. I don't want to be forced into using the typeface/size the publisher/author has chosen. And I certainly don't want to use a location system that's based on a physical reading medium that I'm not currently using.

What would be the point of completely re-creating the exact same experience as a physical book, when we already have physical books, if that's what someone obviously prefers?

[Larla]

In my 60 years of reading a ton of books I don't ever remember referring a page number to someone else. I describe scenes that I liked but never by page number. I'm sure it must happen but even in reading clubs I can't believe that the page number is used to reference things.

Any way, it appears that Amazon/Calibre have already provided this functionality; whether it is "location" or reference to print page number. The point is that even if needed, it is rarely needed and can be accessed by displaying a header.

What is needed, and all the time, is where you are in the book and how far you have to go in pages i.e. screens.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Larla

What is needed, and all the time, is where you are in the book and how far you have to go in pages i.e. screens.

You can see where you are in the book from the percentage - this is always displayed, and is (IMHO) a much more useful figure.

[DiapDealer]

What is needed, and all the time, is where you are in the book and how far you have to go in pages i.e. screens.

No. Its not needed. It's wanted. By some and not by others.
Even reading a physical book, I have no idea exactly how many pages I have to go, or how many pages until the end of a chapter. Not without flipping ahead and getting the last page number and then doing some math, anyway.

The progress bar tells you how far you are from the end of the book, and how far you are away from completing a chapter.

There's nothing wrong with wanting something... just don't pretend it's universally needed. If it were... it would already be in there.

[Larla]

Like it or not, the e-book is the evolution of a book and, in evolving, it replicates many of the same features as a book:

1) text on a page
2) ability to turn the page
3) ability to go to a page

Since it is an evolution, it has improved on some aspects of the book (such as adjusting the font and spacing on the fly). But as long as it has pages that are turned, it should have corresponding page numbers.

[ApK]

It is not a question of if or how "screen pages" could be implemented, but rather why. What value for the broad consumer base other than helping cling to an inapplicable metaphor?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ApK

It is not a question of if or how "screen pages" could be implemented, but rather why. What value for the broad consumer base other than helping cling to an inapplicable metaphor?

And let us not forget that the early eBook readers, such as the Sony PRS-500, did display a screen count as a page number. But as reading devices evolved, people realised that they weren't terribly useful, and moved to other, more useful, methods of displaying the position in a book.

[DiapDealer]

Like it or not, the e-book is the evolution of a book and, in evolving, it replicates many of the same features as a book:

1) text on a page
2) ability to turn the page
3) ability to go to a page

But with an ebook, a page/screen is a moving target. It's fluid... not always the same. So what's the point of trying to tag it with static properties?—other than dogma and paradigm, of course.

Yes the ebook is the evolution of the book. And "The page" is an evolved book's appendix. It might hang about, but what the heck does it really do?

[Larla]

I agree that one of the things that could/should be done better in the evolved e-book is to tell the reader where he is and how much farther he has to go. A good example of that is the progress line which K4 has. Unfortunately, my KT does not have that. Such a progress line with chapter markings is a great improvement that could never be done in the printed book.

However, I don't feel it obviates the need for screen numbers; particularly if you could see how many screens until next chapter or end of book. The progress line is good but not precise. For that you need screen #'s.

It is obvious that we are not going to convince each other so, as I have said in the past, provide a few simple options that lets readers choose how to present this information on their e-reader.

[DiapDealer]

A good example of that is the progress line which K4 has. Unfortunately, my KT does not have that.

Are you saying that the progress bar has been eliminated from the K touch?!

[Larla]

Yup --