Amazon, B&N, Kobo: iOS aps to be pulled in June

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

You couldn't use that iPS store without hacking your iThingie, so it might as well not exist.

And Amazon isn't working on an iOS store; they're working on an Android app store.

Now an Amazon Android app store has my interest. But then again I have a couple of Android devices and nothing with iOS in the house.

[Horemheb]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

No need for the competitors to debate, get into public shouting matches, sneaky back-stabs, "clever" half-compliance moves. No need to get down and dirty in the pigsty.

Do nothing.
Ignore the bullying.
See what happens, then.

Your approach is very appealing and likeable.
A few things however:

1. In a sane and healthy society it should not be allowed for anyone to get away with extorting money for nothing. I think it is easy to concede.
2. Apple wants to extort money from an already thriving and working business without the slightest added value.
3. What Apple is trying to pull off is bad for all players in regards of content: authors, publishers, retailers and most of all the customers (because it inevitably would increase end user prices).
4. Why the complaint of retailers and other service provider players might not seem genuine as they are about to lose some money (although not too much for it is obvious they would transfer the extra cost to the customer as it always happens) but at least the customers should make some noise about this outrageous stunt of Apple.
5. Therefore I think the "do nothing" policy might not be viable at least on the part of the customers.
6. As the examination of authorities show it might be even illegal what Apple is doing. Pointing out illegal activities can be done anyone who notices such thing.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

This seems to be the standard anti-Apple people trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. My understanding is the rule states 1) you have to offer the same deals from in-app purchases that you offer on your website. I don't see where this is a big deal. People can still purchase Amazon books on the Amazon website and read via the kindle app.

The big deal is that the combination of agency pricing and apple's cut mean that they make zero money on those books and the rules prevent them from simply not offering the books at all via the in-app option, so you would have the ludicrous situation where their presence on ios devices would potentially be making them more popular and at the same time reduces their own profits, so it is no wonder that they would pull the app.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by Graham

Off the record confirmation from Amazon, B&N and Kobo?

Those are some pretty impressive contacts...

Or a large pinch of salt is called for at this stage.

It could simply be that person extrapolating from the current rules combined with the deadline that apple have set for this update to take place.

One thing I have wondered about, is there any mechanism to remove an app that has been pulled from the appstore or will it just be the case that it is simply no longer available to download and the existing app will still exist, albeit in a form that becomes out-dated compared to that on other tablets/phones?

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by wyndslash

i know it may sound far-fetched, but i keep thinking that if apple kept this up, their app store might get deserted or something...

They will have plenty of games, productivity apps, smaller magazine publishers etc that are either unaffected or are forced to take the hit to get by and it will just be the service-related apps that potentially act as rivals to itunes that will get forced out.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Crowl

It could simply be that person extrapolating from the current rules combined with the deadline that apple have set for this update to take place.

I agree, but that's not what that person actually said in the blog:

And yes, I have off the record confirmation that they’re going to let Apple pull the apps. What else can they do?

Graham

[boswd]

never mind

[Crowl]

Wouldn't be the first time a blogger has extrapolated something and then tacked on 'unnamed sources' to make it seem more important, it allows them the scope to do a later article about how either apple or these companies backed down if it doesn't happen as they claimed too.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Horemheb

5. Therefore I think the "do nothing" policy might not be viable at least on the part of the customers.

"By jove, he's got it!"

Apple does what it does because its customers allow them to do those things and support them. They are Apple's enablers and defenders.

"Do nothing" is all about customer choice.

You deal with scorpions at your own risk. Don't want to get stung, don't deal with them. Not hard to figure out, is it?

[Horemheb]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Apple does what it does because its customers allow them to do those things and support them.

I know I should have been more specific.
So the trick here is that Apple wants to screw not only Apple customers (who as you say do have a choice) but all other customers who consume digital content. That's because if Apple succeeds then ALL prices will go up because Apple demands a price in AppStore not higher than outside. The only solution to that is to increase all prices outside as well and thus covering Apple's cut.

You deal with scorpions at your own risk. Don't want to get stung, don't deal with them. Not hard to figure out, is it?

You are right but according to the aboves it is like other people deal with scorpions and you get stung.

[elsussman]

I'm not a computer person but have a long memory. Back in the early days of PC's- ie around the mid 80's . While Apple was there first with the Apple II it was the IBM PC running MS-Dos that became the industry standard. Why ... simple.... because it was an open system with open architecture. Today I think that Apple accounts for only about 5% of all PC'S. Well Apple got there first again with the iphone and the ipad but again they are a closed system and they obviously have not learned from their previous mistake and don't wish to remember history(see George Santayana). Other people have come out with competing products that are open and just as good and ultimately Apple will be relegated to the same role that they play in the PC Market. It is greed-fueled by stupidity- that drives Jobs and his minions and it will come back to bite them rest assured. As another example look at todays NY Times look at Apple's response(or lack of) to workers being poisoned by chemicals being used in one of their assembly plants.

I have never owned and have no intention of ever owning an Apple product. Everything I need is done by other manufacturers.

One last note some people will say that kindle is a closed system. In a sense yes. but they freely distribute the software that allows people to read on any of a multitude of devices. Furthermore, they in no way are against other publishers (drm'd and not) using the kindle(mobi) product. It is analogous in my mind to what Phillips NV did after they invented the tape cassette. No royalties and it quickly became the industry standard

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Horemheb

I know I should have been more specific.
So the trick here is that Apple wants to screw not only Apple customers (who as you say do have a choice) but all other customers who consume digital content. That's because if Apple succeeds then ALL prices will go up because Apple demands a price in AppStore not higher than outside. The only solution to that is to increase all prices outside as well and thus covering Apple's cut.


You are right but according to the aboves it is like other people deal with scorpions and you get stung.

Why would letting Apple toss out competitors from their domain affect the rest of us?

Placating Apple and caving in to their extortion *would* result in higher prices outside the iPxxx (they *are* demandingexternal prices match iPxxx pricing) but if the competitors ignore Apple's demands and change nothing then they'll only be doing what they would've done anyway; compete. Which means better catalogs, better service, and cheaper pricing.

Doing nothing results in one of several things:

1- Apple throws out the apps.

2- Apple "clarifies" the rules back to the old status quo. (Yeah, right!)

3- Apple ignores the new rules for everything except magazine and newspapers subscriptions.

Now, if Apple throws out competing apps, the most likely scenario is iPxxx owners will simply buy their books and content from Apple.
Some will whine but nobody will bell the cat.

Somewhat likely, some east Texas shyster will run a class-action lawsuit.
Less likely, some aspiring political hack in a statehouse will announce an investigation into possible anti-competitive practices.
Even less likely, some bureaucrat will notice and start up an investigation.
Either way, Apple gets away with it. They can stall any investigation for years and their fans will support them to the hilt. Nothing will happen.

It's a can't lose move for Apple, really.
Their customers don't care.

The only way the "rest of us" non-hip, non-elite plebes get impacted by this is if Apple is *so important* to the book and streaming and publishing industries that *all* the players would rather raise their prices to meet Apple's demands so that Apple can have prices 30% lower than they do, thereby handing their market to Apple.

The move is then a win-win for Apple and a lose-lose for everybody else.

Only one problem in that scenario: all it takes is *one* sneaky player that refuses to BOGU for Apple. (C.F. Random House vis-a-vis Agency Pricing and iBooks.)

It's like the classic Prisoner's Dillema in reverse:
If *everybody* caves in, everybody loses to Apple. But if everybody but one caves in, the one that *doesn't* loses access to the oh-so-important iOS market but gets to rule everything else.

Now, I don't know about Kobo or B&N or anybody else on the media side, but I'm thinking Amazon and Netflix would both be very happy with that last scenario. A rational read of actual sales numbers (as opposed to media mindshare) shows that there is more money to be made outside the iOS tyranny than inside it.

So, again: smart move is to do nothing.
Apple's not bluffing.
But when faced with a lose-lose game, the only smart move is not to play.
In this case, the smart move is not to comply or fight or even actively pull out.
Just let Apple kick you out and see what happens then.

[CyGuy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Apple does what it does because its customers allow them to do those things and support them. They are Apple's enablers and defenders.

This is exactly correct. Apple gets away with this insane business model because people fall for it. Some people are just gullible and Apple has become very proficient at exploiting it...

[Seli]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

How about this: Amazon can't afford to pay Apple the 30%. No one can afford it.

How about this: Even if they offered the same deals, the in-app system can't handle more than 3,000 items. Amazon sell over 800k titles. How exactly do you think this will work?

Not quite, content-resellers cannot afford it, especially with the equal-pricing part of the rules. However, content-owners should be fine, they probably (and for publishers for sure) pay similar amounts anyway to get their product to the consumer.

So basically this move could be interpreted as an attempt of apple to remove the intermediaries. In a similar way (and with similar contracts) as Amazon tries to get authors to 'publish' directly with them.

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by Grimm

Why not? They did it with iTunes. They are relying on brand loyalty. Sadly people pay the premium Apple asks for subpar hardware (for the price).

The competition's inability to produce a tablet of equal or greater quality as the iPad for a cheaper price proves that you are incorrect. If Apple overcharged for subpar hardware then it should be a simple matter for Samsung, Motorola, etc. to produce a tablet of comparable hardware specs at a lower price.

That ain't happenin'

But don't let the facts stand in the way of anti-Apple bigotry. There are many legitimate reasons to dislike Apple. There's no reason to make stuff up.

Originally Posted by CyGuy

This is exactly correct. Apple gets away with this insane business model because people fall for it. Some people are just gullible and Apple has become very proficient at exploiting it...

SOME people? How many iOS devices have been sold in total? Far more than "some" people.

Apple is getting away with this insane business model because there are many consumers who find value in it. You should know how that works (given the windows logo on your avatar). Microsoft mastered the art of insane business models... like charging a Windows license fee for every computer sold by a manufacturer whether or not Windows was actually installed on it.