WTF do publishers think they're doing ?

[cadele]

I, too, don't care who is the stumbling block in the chain - I just want to buy the book.

I am so frustrated by geographical restrictions. I write to the authors, who are usually unaware/horrified and refer me to the publisher. I write to the publishers, who essentially ignore me.

I must be simple but here I am, waving my credit card, happy to pay the money, but I am rebuffed. Who do I have to F to get the book???

The lost sales must be staggering.

I still buy huge numbers of books. Thankfully there are lots of small publishers who sell to anyone, anywhere and, be still my beating heart, in virtually any format and with no DRM.

I have found many fine authors that way. Perhaps the editing isn't quite as good but I can live with that. That is something that the publishers can improve upon - it's fixable.

But, I am still infuriated that publishers like Penguin can't get their act together and negotiate the necessary contracts to publish ebooks in Australia.

Nothing depresses me more than finding out that an indie author I like has signed a contract with a major publishing house - suddenly there goes my ability to be able to purchase their work.

Or, as has happened to me this week, I found a new author and series. I can even buy one of their ebooks. The problem is that it is number 3 in the series. Numbers 1 and 2, naturally, are unavailable in Australia.

And they wonder why their businesses are failing, why sales are being lost, and why people out of sheer desperation turn to the pirates - who can sell it faster, cheaper, easier and with no DRM. What is wrong with this picture?!

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by cadele

The lost sales must be staggering.

They aren't.

While your frustration is understandable, the world simply does not stop spinning to suit your conveniences.

It takes time to make sure that the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. A big publisher like Penguin can't just haul off and publish whatever they want whenever they want, without violating countless contracts and agreements with the authors.

Further, ebooks simply aren't a big percentage of the market in Australia. Once ebooks really pick up steam, these kinds of issues will largely get resolved.

Originally Posted by cadele

And they wonder why their businesses are failing, why sales are being lost...

The US doesn't have these kinds of availability issues much anymore -- even ebook availability is steadily improving. Yet the stores that primarily sell physical books are still going out of business.

No one is going out of business because of a lack of title availability. It's a confluence of factors, including but not limited to: online competition, a massive recession, the cost of credit, currency fluctuations, over-expansion, and bad management.

Originally Posted by cadele

people out of sheer desperation turn to the pirates - who can sell it faster, cheaper, easier and with no DRM. What is wrong with this picture?!

I dunno, your assumptions I guess? Or conflating your frustrations with the state of a multi-billion dollar industry?

People pirate for many reasons. "I don't wanna pay" is a pretty big one, I'd say. Extensive legitimate digital music catalogs have been around for years now, at low prices; they've been DRM-free for at least a year. It hasn't made a dent in piracy rates. Go figure....

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

They aren't.

Well, since there are no numbers available, certainly not publicly, your guess is as good as ours.

While your frustration is understandable, the world simply does not stop spinning to suit your conveniences.

Did anybody say as much? Still, pissing off legitimate customers too much and for too long is a sure-fire way into obsolescence. It's happened before.

People pirate for many reasons.

Not that many, really. In fact, the number is quite limited.

"I don't wanna pay" is a pretty big one, I'd say.

It plays a role for a certain percentage, certainly. But then, those aren't the ones the industry should be worried about; most of them wouldn't have bought the book (MP3, movie, whatever) -- or wouldn't have had the means to buy it -- in the first place. It makes for great statistics, of course, but really isn't a lost sale at the end of the day. But price is not the only factor: availability (for the reader of my choice) and convenience are just as important.

[dapriuk]

While I will not necessarily defend Australian publishers pushing extremely high prices, regional publishing actually does make sense in a lot of cases.
...

What you say may apply for physical goods but I can't see how it is justified in the case of digital media such as ebooks and music. Where are the extra costs, especially as most the infrastructure costs (web servers etc) are likely all in India or China anyway.

What the WWW has done is expose the true extent of geographic pricing and restrictions to a lot more people than when publishers controlled all media. The result is that people might put off buying an item until the local price comes down to meet the US one or order direct from US if they can. Attempts to block direct ordering may cause the customer to not buy from that provider at all.

If it is very obvious that the supplier is screwing me on price I will stop being a customer for that product, or any products from that supplier. I will not buy from a number of providers for exactly that reason, including Apple and Adobe, I don't care how "magical" the thing.

So my suggestion is to fire the idiot marketeer or whoever suggests/insists on differential pricing where there is no reasonable reason, adopt a global price and promote the fact. The Supplier gets to save a couple of salaries and will likely sell far more than when the pricing was more creative.

[cadele]

Dear Rogue Librarian, thank you for being able to see both sides of the story.

I certainly don't expect, Kali Yuga, the world to revolve around my wishes. No-one is obliged to sell me anything that they don't want to.

It is very simplistic of me, I know, that I would think that the overall main aim of publishers and authors is to sell their work. I would just like an equal opportunity to be able to buy that work.

I am very frustrated that I don't have access to a great number of books that I would like to buy. I am more frustrated by the seeming indifference of some big publishers to consumers.

I have more than once written quite polite requests for information as to when a book will be released. I never get a reply. I don't expect the publisher to be able to provide me with a precise date to the millisecond. I would be disappointed, but not annoyed if they even advised that they had no idea at all when the book would be available. What I do find aggravating is their complete lack of response and seeming indifference.

Authors, on the other hand, I have found to be very polite and have always replied. The impression I have from the authors is that it is down to the publisher as to when their books will be released.

One author has many (paper book) followers in Australia and had no idea that her work was unavailable in ebook form here. She told me that her publisher, Penguin, had worldwide rights and suggested that I write to them. I did, but as usual was completely ignored. I am still unable to obtain this author's work in ebook form and I have been trying now not just for weeks or months but years.

Perhaps my statement, that you seemed to find so ludicrous, that the losses of sales must be staggering is an exaggeration. However, I am sure I am not the only person in Australia desperately trying to obtain authorised copies of certain ebooks to no avail.

From some of the other posts, I gather that people in other countries - non U.S. of course - have the same problem. Yes, Australia does not have a large population, but last time I heard there were more than a few people in the U.K. etc. Add us all up, and I would think that is a large number of lost sales.

It is easy to be blithe when one is unaffected by the problem, of course.

I think unavailability of authorised books does increase piracy. It is obviously not the only reason or the main reason, but I think that it does contribute to it. I don't believe that cost alone is the only reason for piracy.

In the end, however, it is the feeling of being treated with no respect or consideration that leaves a sour taste, and it certainly doesn't encourage any loyalty. Respect is a two way street.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by cadele

It is very simplistic of me, I know, that I would think that the overall main aim of publishers and authors is to sell their work. I would just like an equal opportunity to be able to buy that work.

It is, and you should.

However, as far as I can tell the ebook market in Australia is still very small. And while it will be faster to get books that are already in a digital form into Australia:

• It takes time for these kinds of major transitions to take place.
• There isn't a big economic incentive to fix this problem yet.
• it won't be long before there is such an incentive.

It is unfortunate that publishers aren't paying attention, but it really is just a matter of time. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I assume that people don't like it when you counsel patience, and to let the transition take its course....

Originally Posted by cadele

One author has many (paper book) followers in Australia and had no idea that her work was unavailable in ebook form here. She told me that her publisher, Penguin, had worldwide rights and suggested that I write to them. I did, but as usual was completely ignored.

(Emphasis added) Well, there goes the theory that a single company retaining international publishing rights will fix the availability problem....

Originally Posted by cadele

Yes, Australia does not have a large population, but last time I heard there were more than a few people in the U.K. etc. Add us all up, and I would think that is a large number of lost sales.

I don't believe the UK is quite as bad as it used to be; the US certainly isn't. It wasn't that long ago that availability in the US was regarded as an unconscionable issue; with a few glaring exceptions (*cough* Harry Potter *cough*) nowadays it's more a problem of backlist titles than newer books.

The "Australian reader" market is probably a pretty good sized population; but again, until ebooks really start to take off they aren't losing a lot of sales yet.

It's entirely plausible that ebook usage in Australia, UK and Canada hovers around 3% of all book buyers. I'd say publishers aren't missing a huge market yet.

Originally Posted by cadele

It is easy to be blithe when one is unaffected by the problem, of course.

There are plenty of books I'd love to see in digital form, which aren't out. In fact, some would compete against public domain books (e.g. specific translations of ancient Roman texts), so it may be a long time before they're out. I manage to survive somehow.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by dapriuk

What you say may apply for physical goods but I can't see how it is justified in the case of digital media such as ebooks and music. Where are the extra costs, especially as most the infrastructure costs (web servers etc) are likely all in India or China anyway.

We're not talking about price, we're talking about availability.

Unlike some other materials, at the moment geo restrictions for books usually has much more to do with contracts and marketing than prices. Also, a fair amount of the price variations is due to local taxes -- e.g. the UK charges a high VAT rate, but US citizens rarely pay sales taxes on Internet purchases.

Originally Posted by dapriuk

If it is very obvious that the supplier is screwing me on price I will stop being a customer for that product, or any products from that supplier.

H'm. I guess you no longer buy gas, rice, cigarettes, Internet access, medications or soda (85% profit margin, by the way), then?

[jbcohen]

Here is my advice cadele and remember its worth what you pay for it and you are not paying me for this advice. There are a lot of publishers big and small and they all have different business models. I have simply hitched my electronic book reading wagon to a company that has a pricing model that gets me what I want for a minimal price and suprise its not Penguin or Randomhouse.

Golden Eagle is a sub-company of Harlequin books who sells thriller books for men in the form of several series: Executioner, Stony Man, Super Bolan, Outlands, Death Lands and Rogue Angel. From what I understand they are quite happy to send you books for seas (they are a US company) for the price of shipping to where ever you are plus inport duties. This is a company that does not have the visibility of Penguin and Randomhouse and thus does not have the luxery of ignoring customers so they will bend over backwards to get your business. Unfortunatly they have not caught up with the electronic readers as yet.

I would recommend you check them out at these sites:

readgoldeagle.blogspot.com
mackbolan.com
jamesaxler.com

[LCF]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

H'm. I guess you no longer buy gas, rice, cigarettes, Internet access, medications or soda (85% profit margin, by the way), then?

This argument is completely wrong. It's not about stop buying the product, it's about changing the supplier.

[Vivian]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the publishing industry is using inflated ebook prices to try to subsidize the print industry, where impractical traditions like returns take a big bite out of their profits.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Here is my advice cadele and remember its worth what you pay for it and you are not paying me for this advice. There are a lot of publishers big and small and they all have different business models. I have simply hitched my electronic book reading wagon to a company that has a pricing model that gets me what I want for a minimal price and suprise its not Penguin or Randomhouse.

Golden Eagle is a sub-company of Harlequin books who sells thriller books for men in the form of several series: Executioner, Stony Man, Super Bolan, Outlands, Death Lands and Rogue Angel. From what I understand they are quite happy to send you books for seas (they are a US company) for the price of shipping to where ever you are plus inport duties. This is a company that does not have the visibility of Penguin and Randomhouse and thus does not have the luxery of ignoring customers so they will bend over backwards to get your business. Unfortunatly they have not caught up with the electronic readers as yet.

Are you talking about eBooks or paper books? ALL publishers will sell you paper books no matter where in the world you live.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by LCF

This argument is completely wrong. It's not about stop buying the product, it's about changing the supplier.

...except that by some standards, all the suppliers of those goods are "ripping you off." The companies in these industries charge highly comparable prices for their goods, and can often have very high profit margins.

If you pay $1.00 for a soda, 85¢ of that is profit. So do you actively research goods and services to detect exorbitant profit margins? Or do you just look at a price, say "I don't wanna pay that much," take your services elsewhere, and retroactively apply a moral judgment on the presumption that the costs for each good and service should be identical across the board, and that every company has an ethical obligation to offer the lowest possible price?

Or perhaps the definition of "rip off" only apply when a sector offers variability in pricing?

And none of this alters the fact that local taxes often play a large role in international price differentials. That's a major reason why gas in Europe is so much more expensive than in the US (lower gas taxes) or Peru (which subsidizes fuel purchases). Similarly the UK levies a 17.5% VAT on ebooks, which is included in the price; the US does not, and if a smaller sales tax does apply, it's often excluded from the price until the purchase is nearly complete. That's a 10-17.5% premium right there.

[LCF]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

...except that by some standards, all the suppliers of those goods are "ripping you off." ...

I still don't get your point. What's wrong with buying X from A rather than from B, if A offers it cheaper?

Explain very simply, please.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by LCF

I still don't get your point. What's wrong with buying X from A rather than from B, if A offers it cheaper?

Explain very simply, please.

Well, one example: let's suppose A is producing product X with child labour, paid 1c a day for working 16 hour days, whereas B is producing the same product with well-paid workers in good working conditions, but having to charge more for it as a consequence. Some might consider it wrong to buy your product from A rather than the more expensive B, in those circumstances.

[GeoffC]

a more expensive B may provide a better customer service.