PDF is Driving me Crazy !! - Page 6

NatCh · 06-11-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_d

Who uses 'punk' as an insult?

No one on google.

You aren't on Google.

MobileRead tries to keep a respectful air around here. I took the statement to be intended as ... less than respectful, and I have a pretty thick skin, so I don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned that others might too.

All I'm asking is that you treat others with the respect you've been treated with. Name calling, however innocuous the name, isn't respectful, nor does it contribute to the discussion in any useful way.

HarryT · 06-11-2007, 12:49 PM

Entirely agreed. All joking apart, what makes this such as nice place to visit is the fact that we can have civilized discussions, even when we know that the other person is wrong

. That's a rare thing on the internet, and well worth protecting.

kovidgoyal · 06-11-2007, 01:22 PM

Yes the CLI does have a philosophy of having features that don't expose themselves automatically. That's what makes it so powerful. The be all and end all of computer use should not only be ease-of-use. We are getting beyond the point where we need to make computers as simple au automatons to encourage their mass adoption. In any design decision there is a trade-off between ease of use and power. You must sacrifice one for the other. And yes the CLI strikes a balance that is more towards the side of power. Just like a natural language is harder to learn that miming.

And I don't agree that CLI programs are typically worse documented than GUI programs. It's just a different method of documentation that you as someone who had grown up with the GUI paradigm may find harder to appreciate.

NatCh · 06-11-2007, 01:27 PM

Sounds like there's a place for both approaches going forward -- just as the average commuter doesn't really have to understand the physics behind the automobile, the guy who designs the things certainly needs that level of understanding.

I guess if you can do what you need to with a GUI, and you're happy with the situation, then great, and if you need the CLI to get to something more, then it's a good thing that it's available too.

It's generally a good thing to have more than one way to do things, people are just too different to all fit the same mold.

kovidgoyal · 06-11-2007, 01:37 PM

Well sure, I'm not advocating we abandon GUIs. All I'm saying is that people should be aware of the power of the command interface (whether it be through the command line, scripts in GUI application or voice recognition) and as they become more comfortable with computers, try to learn to use it.

I realize that many people just want to get the job done and don't really want to have to make that initial investment of time it takes to learn a CLI, but considering that we now use computers for pretty much everything, I really feel that the productivity gains over the long term justify the initial investment, especially for tasks that you expect to have to perform on a regular basis. It could be something as simple as learning the advanced sytax of the Google search box, think of the time it will save you scrolling through lists of results over the years.

NatCh · 06-11-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

... I really feel that the productivity gains over the long term justify the initial investment, especially for tasks that you expect to have to perform on a regular basis.

You're probably right, but there will always be folks who never have enough time to learn the next step, or at least think they don't.

A few bosses I've had come to mind.

JSWolf · 06-11-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

You're probably right, but there will always be folks who never have enough time to learn the next step, or at least think they don't.

A few bosses I've had come to mind.

I've seen a few on this very forum ask questions that would have been answered had they read all the threads.

NatCh · 06-11-2007, 02:35 PM

Yeah, but reading all the threads cold? There are 1,631 threads containing 19,957 posts (at the moment) -- that's quite a backlog to wade through!

The search tool is pretty good, but it's a lot easier for those of us who were here at the time and have a better idea what to search for, to at least point to which thread(s) might be helpful.

And the Wiki has increasingly become a nice collection point for the common questions that have answers that don't change.

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06-11-2007, 12:49 PM	#77
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Entirely agreed. All joking apart, what makes this such as nice place to visit is the fact that we can have civilized discussions, even when we know that the other person is wrong . That's a rare thing on the internet, and well worth protecting.

06-11-2007, 01:22 PM	#78
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,295 Karma: 27111240 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	Yes the CLI does have a philosophy of having features that don't expose themselves automatically. That's what makes it so powerful. The be all and end all of computer use should not only be ease-of-use. We are getting beyond the point where we need to make computers as simple au automatons to encourage their mass adoption. In any design decision there is a trade-off between ease of use and power. You must sacrifice one for the other. And yes the CLI strikes a balance that is more towards the side of power. Just like a natural language is harder to learn that miming. And I don't agree that CLI programs are typically worse documented than GUI programs. It's just a different method of documentation that you as someone who had grown up with the GUI paradigm may find harder to appreciate.

06-11-2007, 01:27 PM	#79
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Sounds like there's a place for both approaches going forward -- just as the average commuter doesn't really have to understand the physics behind the automobile, the guy who designs the things certainly needs that level of understanding. I guess if you can do what you need to with a GUI, and you're happy with the situation, then great, and if you need the CLI to get to something more, then it's a good thing that it's available too. It's generally a good thing to have more than one way to do things, people are just too different to all fit the same mold.

06-11-2007, 01:37 PM	#80
kovidgoyal creator of calibre Posts: 45,295 Karma: 27111240 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mumbai, India Device: Various	Well sure, I'm not advocating we abandon GUIs. All I'm saying is that people should be aware of the power of the command interface (whether it be through the command line, scripts in GUI application or voice recognition) and as they become more comfortable with computers, try to learn to use it. I realize that many people just want to get the job done and don't really want to have to make that initial investment of time it takes to learn a CLI, but considering that we now use computers for pretty much everything, I really feel that the productivity gains over the long term justify the initial investment, especially for tasks that you expect to have to perform on a regular basis. It could be something as simple as learning the advanced sytax of the Google search box, think of the time it will save you scrolling through lists of results over the years.

06-11-2007, 02:35 PM	#83
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Yeah, but reading all the threads cold? There are 1,631 threads containing 19,957 posts (at the moment) -- that's quite a backlog to wade through! The search tool is pretty good, but it's a lot easier for those of us who were here at the time and have a better idea what to search for, to at least point to which thread(s) might be helpful. And the Wiki has increasingly become a nice collection point for the common questions that have answers that don't change.

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