PNG in KF8 yet?

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Originally Posted by Hitch

In short: yes.

Hitch

Thanks!

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Peter Ahlstrom

Thanks!

Yew betcha. No reason you should have to suffer over this for a decade like the rest of us have.

Hitch

[jhowell]

I did some research recently that is relevant to this topic so I thought I would share it here.

I was reading on my Kindle Oasis a recently published book (The Lost Metal by Brandon Sanderson) put out by a major publisher (Tor Books) and it contains a few maps at the beginning to add context to the story. I was disappointed that on my device the map images were of low resolution, barely readable even when zoomed in. The same maps in the Kindle app on my iPad were far clearer with much more detail.

On the Kindle for PC, Kindle for Android, and Kindle for iOS app this book downloads as a set of KFX files totaling 30,941KB in size. This closely matches the file size (30,982KB) listed on the amazon.com product page of the book. I do not know what kind of deal TOR has with Amazon, but for a KDP self publisher that size would determine the delivery cost of the book and affect the publisher's earnings. The same book delivered to my Kindle Oasis was only 3.57MB in size.

I looked at the first map (Elendel Basin) in the book. As far as I can tell that image was a good quality 783KB GIF image with dimensions of 1600x2493 pixels as delivered by the publisher to Amazon.

In the KFX files delivered to the Kindle apps that map is a 1.84MB JPEG file of 1232x1920 pixels. So the file has been converted to be more than twice as large but has lower resolution. And this larger file is included in the delivery cost of the book.

The same map delivered to my Kindle Oasis was a disappointing 74.4KB JPEG-XR with 441x687 pixels, a tiny fraction of the original image provided by the publisher. I can think of no valid reason for Amazon to reduce the image quality that severely. I would be angry if I was the publisher.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I did some research recently that is relevant to this topic so I thought I would share it here.

I was reading on my Kindle Oasis a recently published book (The Lost Metal by Brandon Sanderson) put out by a major publisher (Tor Books) and it contains a few maps at the beginning to add context to the story. I was disappointed that on my device the map images were of low resolution, barely readable even when zoomed in. The same maps in the Kindle app on my iPad were far clearer with much more detail.

On the Kindle for PC, Kindle for Android, and Kindle for iOS app this book downloads as a set of KFX files totaling 30,941KB in size. This closely matches the file size (30,982KB) listed on the amazon.com product page of the book. I do not know what kind of deal TOR has with Amazon, but for a KDP self publisher that size would determine the delivery cost of the book and affect the publisher's earnings. The same book delivered to my Kindle Oasis was only 3.57MB in size.

I looked at the first map (Elendel Basin) in the book. As far as I can tell that image was a good quality 783KB GIF image with dimensions of 1600x2493 pixels as delivered by the publisher to Amazon.

In the KFX files delivered to the Kindle apps that map is a 1.84MB JPEG file of 1232x1920 pixels. So the file has been converted to be more than twice as large but has lower resolution. And this larger file is included in the delivery cost of the book.

The same map delivered to my Kindle Oasis was a disappointing 74.4KB JPEG-XR with 441x687 pixels, a tiny fraction of the original image provided by the publisher. I can think of no valid reason for Amazon to reduce the image quality that severely. I would be angry if I was the publisher.

Well, dang. We've all seen the folders, in unpacked mobis, with the higher-rez and lower-rez images, but...this sounds wild to me. I mean, why deliver such a low-rez version to the Oasis, of all places? The Oasis is higher-reaz, really, than many of the eInks, if memory serves. (Weren't most of the eInks at 169ppi and the Oasis was higher, or am I misremembering?)

That's really interesting, jhowell. I always assumed that yes, of course, different "versions" were being delivered, but I admit I never suspected that the image quality would be that enormously different. Never really looked hard, I guess.

Hitch

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Well, dang. We've all seen the folders, in unpacked mobis, with the higher-rez and lower-rez images, but...this sounds wild to me. I mean, why deliver such a low-rez version to the Oasis, of all places? The Oasis is higher-reaz, really, than many of the eInks, if memory serves. (Weren't most of the eInks at 169ppi and the Oasis was higher, or am I misremembering?)

My Oasis screen is 1264x1680 pixels and the maps in this book are meant to be shown as a full page. I can't think of a good reason for Amazon to have butchered them in this way.

Originally Posted by Hitch

That's really interesting, jhowell. I always assumed that yes, of course, different "versions" were being delivered, but I admit I never suspected that the image quality would be that enormously different. Never really looked hard, I guess.

I hadn't noticed this extreme level of image processing before either. Perhaps it is something fairly new or just uncommon.

My working hypothesis is that it was triggered by publishing those maps using large, detailed GIF images. If I am right about that the decision of whether to use GIF or PNG or JPEG may end up being important.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by jhowell

My Oasis screen is 1264x1680 pixels and the maps in this book are meant to be shown as a full page. I can't think of a good reason for Amazon to have butchered them in this way.



I hadn't noticed this extreme level of image processing before either. Perhaps it is something fairly new or just uncommon.

My working hypothesis is that it was triggered by publishing those maps using large, detailed GIF images. If I am right about that the decision of whether to use GIF or PNG or JPEG may end up being important.

Oh, now, THAT is a real thought! DAMN. Other than experimenting--which is hard for those of us not publishing actual books directly--I wonder how we can determine it? That theory feels like it has legs. Hmph.

I need to go search through our archives and see if I can find something relatively recent, with GIF maps versus something with the old usuals, PNG or JPG.

Hitch

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Originally Posted by jhowell

I was reading on my Kindle Oasis a recently published book (The Lost Metal by Brandon Sanderson) put out by a major publisher (Tor Books) and it contains a few maps at the beginning to add context to the story.

Thanks for the report. That’s pretty frustrating to hear. I work for Brandon, and I make all the ebook images to deliver to Tor, as well as review their ePub file before it gets published. I max out the image sizes per Apple’s 4-million-pixel limit, and I optimize them as best I can.

The Lost Metal uses the same image quality as all of Brandon’s books since Words of Radiance. Do you also see poor quality images in e.g. Rhythm of War on that device?

The ePub for The Lost Metal is 9.9 MB.

(Under Macmillan’s deal with Amazon, they do not have to cover delivery fees the way KDP authors do. Delivery fees are a scam by Amazon anyway.)

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Peter Ahlstrom

Thanks for the report. That’s pretty frustrating to hear. I work for Brandon, and I make all the ebook images to deliver to Tor, as well as review their ePub file before it gets published. I max out the image sizes per Apple’s 4-million-pixel limit, and I optimize them as best I can.

It sounds like you are doing it right. Amazon is messing with your hard work.

Originally Posted by Peter Ahlstrom

The Lost Metal uses the same image quality as all of Brandon’s books since Words of Radiance. Do you also see poor quality images in e.g. Rhythm of War on that device?

I had a look at Rhythm of War both on my Kindle Oasis and also using the Kindle for PC app. Near the beginning there is a map followed by two full page images. All of those are have noticeable degradation of image quality on the Oasis compared with Kindle for PC app. In the two full page images there are handwritten notes that are clear on the PC but nearly unreadable on the Oasis.

I extracted and compared the first of the two full page images. The one delivered to the PC app is 966KB in JPEG format with 1288x1920 pixels. The same image on the Oasis is 76KB in JPEG-XR format with 569x848 pixels.

I have looked at some other books and as far as I can tell Amazon is reducing the size of images delivered to e-ink Kindle devices in books with Enhanced Typesetting (KFX format) to be 82KB or less in size. I have come across a few exceptions where images were of higher quality, but so far I have been unable to determine why that is the case.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Thanks. I will reach out to my contact at Amazon (who used to work for Brandon’s agent) and ask about this. 82KB would be a painful limit. Not even as good as mobi’s old 127KB limit!

All of those full-page images are supposed to be 1600 pixels wide, and the first one (the exterior view of Urithiru) is a 766KB jpg. We are releasing a book through KDP on the 10th, so I may have to experiment with its Kindle version.

The Lost Metal Elendel map that I delivered is indeed a 1600x2493 gif, but the one I gave them is 803KB (801,973 bytes). I'm really curious how it got shrunk to 783KB! I already reduced the color table down to 8, and with the detail in the map I wasn't comfortable reducing it any more than that. The metadata is also stripped to the essentials. I've tried running flexiGIF, but on files of this resolution I never got more than halfway through one file in a day.

[JSWolf]

The ePub versions of Sanderson's eBooks have not been messed with. They have the full resolution images. For now, the solution is to buy the ePub versions and convert.

I see no reason for Amazon not to deliver the full resolution graphics with KF8 and KFX. And I highly agree that delivery fees are a scam.

IMHO, this is a black mark against Kindles and against buying eBooks from Amazon.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

IMHO, this is a black mark against Kindles and against buying eBooks from Amazon.

Another.

However often I can only easily buy ebooks from Amazon. However I don't read them on a kindle or App. As you know I use Content and Devices and download to PC for USB.

I'll likely cease buying from Amazon if that stops working.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Peter Ahlstrom

Delivery fees are a scam by Amazon anyway.)

They are a scam for PC Download from My Content and Devices, or Whispernet via WiFi or apps.

However the 3G/4G etc mobile/cellular whispernet is free to the user for bought ebooks (not for other content via Send To Kindle) so Amazon is paying for that.

Since it's a per operator region corporate contract the fees seem high, so it's partially a scam for cell/mobile Kindles and completely a scam for apps, PC downloads and WiFi based Whispernet.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Peter Ahlstrom

Thanks. I will reach out to my contact at Amazon (who used to work for Brandon’s agent) and ask about this. 82KB would be a painful limit. Not even as good as mobi’s old 127KB limit!

All of those full-page images are supposed to be 1600 pixels wide, and the first one (the exterior view of Urithiru) is a 766KB jpg. We are releasing a book through KDP on the 10th, so I may have to experiment with its Kindle version.

The Lost Metal Elendel map that I delivered is indeed a 1600x2493 gif, but the one I gave them is 803KB (801,973 bytes). I'm really curious how it got shrunk to 783KB! I already reduced the color table down to 8, and with the detail in the map I wasn't comfortable reducing it any more than that. The metadata is also stripped to the essentials. I've tried running flexiGIF, but on files of this resolution I never got more than halfway through one file in a day.

I would love to know if your Amazon person tells you anything. We've been doing fairly high-rez image versions for ages now and yes, I too would be loath to think that they're wasted. 82kb is simply untenable.

Hitch

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Peter Ahlstrom

Thanks. I will reach out to my contact at Amazon (who used to work for Brandon’s agent) and ask about this. 82KB would be a painful limit. Not even as good as mobi’s old 127KB limit!

Hopefully you can share whatever you find out from your contact.

----

I have done some more research and found something interesting. One of the books I purchased from Amazon, Tales from Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin, has a map near the beginning that I found to be very readable when zoomed in on my Kindle Oasis, unlike the maps in the Brandon Sanderson books I examined recently.

I looked into the files Amazon delivered to my Kindle and found something different. In that book there is a copy of the map that is a not very readable 81KB JPEG-XR file with 852x632 pixels. But there is a second copy of the same map which is a 2.4MB JPEG file with 2300x1702 pixels. That is the one that is apparently being used on my Kindle.

The metadata for that book indicates that it has "yj_hdv", which is short for Yellow Jersey (Amazon's internal code name for Enhanced Typesetting/KFX format) High Definition Visuals.

This raises some questions. Why does this book, and a few others I have found, get this special handling? And is there something publishers can do to make these higher quality images available for their books?

[Quoth]

I got my "The Books of Earthsea: The Complete Illustrated Edition" by Content & Devices, Download to PC for USB transfer. I picked PW3 as destination. I did since get an Oasis gen 2, but gave it away.

It's got 73 images!
00007.jpg is the Earthsea map 1172 x 916, 118 k Bytes.
00009.jpg might be largest file size of 121k, colour illustration 676 x 1045
It's just before the Contents Page of the 1st book, A Wizard of Earthsea and its CSS is height: 100% and width: auto.

Lovely on my Libra and Sage Not tried it on colour tablet or any of my Kindles.