Do you pirate books and why?

[spindlegirl]

With the exception of, obviously, making backup copies all over the place, all of the above can be said for what I've done with a hunk of paper known as a book.

With Printed books:

- I've read copies without paying for them, without even registering as a "borrow" from a library. It's legal to sit in a library, without technically "signing" the book out and polishing off a book in a few hours and sticking it back on the shelf- wouldn't even count as a "borrow" if the library has only allowed 26 loans before needing to re-buy.

- borrowed from friends, who then have loaned it to other friends. Sometimes I am about the 6th or 7th person to have had my hands on that exact copy.

- I've bought 2 copies of books before (second hand even) one to read, and one I don't mind loaning out (which, in e-book terms would qualify as a 'backup' - paid a pittance and not even paid the author)

- I've mailed (postal mail) books to people in other countries for the cost of postage, when they said they had a hard time finding it locally.

- one copy of book has been read by up to dozens of people....

-I've read out of date Reader's Digest magazines at the dentist's waiting room.

With a printed book, nothing wrong with that.... for some of the above, with e-books, it's close to piracy. (Again why I prefer to buy paper, but borrow or download sample chapters for E) It's hard to do anything like that with e-books without violating a copyright because with each function e-books copy themselves.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by WritePR

Are you serious? Libraries PAY for every book they have available to check out, Pirates don't pay a dime. Libraries also have PERMISSION from the publishers to offer those books for lending. Pirates don't. That is why piracy is WRONG.

Tell it to Captain Jack Sparrow. Maybe he will take up a new career.

[arnique]

Originally Posted by HarryT

There would be only one set of circumstances in which I'd consider it ethically justifiable to pirate a book:

1. If no commercial eBook was available.

and:

2. I'd bought the paper book.

In those circumstances, I'd have no qualms about downloading a pirated eBook. However, if a commercial eBook did then become commercially available, I'd buy it.

So I'd have to answer "on occasions". Very rare occasions.

These are also the main reasons I pirate books. However, the frequency is not on "very rare occasions" because of the geographic restrictions that many ebook publishers are bound by. I live outside the US so I often come up against that irritating wall. Not only does it take three-six months for the deadtree books to come to my local bookshop, I cannot legally purchase a commercial ebook.

SO conditions when I pirate ebooks:

1. No commercial ebook and/or deadtree book available in my region.
2. New authors. I need more than the usual free "preview" to decide whether I like his or her writing style. If I like the writer, I will buy the book in hardcover (if available) to "offset" the download.

Unlike HarryT though, I will not purchase the epub when it becomes commercially available, I will buy the deadtree book. In some ways, a physical book is the best one to have.

I ALWAYS buy commercial epub and/or deadtree of writers I've read before, even if the individual book turn out to be bad! I am more likely to purchase epubs (even of new authors) if they are self-published. The price tends to be more acceptable $1.99-5.99 and I feel like I'm actually contributing to the writers themselves.

[Harper Kingsley]

I do not advocate piracy, but I do understand it.

When I was younger I pirated several books, but that was a long, long time ago. I grew up a bit and made the choice to stop stealing because it wasn't worth the anxiety. And there was never any time in my life when I didn't think of it as stealing; there was something kind of cool about breaking the law and not getting caught. I felt like I was in the movie Hackers, which was very exciting. But growing up, I realized that just because I'm poor doesn't give me the right to take things without permission.

Now I live with the idea that people are going to do what they're going to do, but I've made the personal choice not to do it. I just try to tell people that if they're going to pirate books, at least attempt to compensate the author. If someone writes a story you enjoy, how hard is it to go on Goodreads and rate their book or leave a nice review? If you hated it, you don't have to say anything, but if you loved it... why not? You just took something for free, so at the very least you can give something for free.

And someone needs to tell all those torrent sites and download sites to not have their stuff Google search enabled. At least if there's some work involved with the pirating/copyright infringement/stealing, whatever you want to call it, a lot of ambivalent people won't come to the conclusion that it's a legitimate method of getting ebooks. Plus, I won't end up frothing with rage when I run an ego search and on like page 3 there's my book for download on some site.

Oh, would just like to say, since my books started showing up on pirate sites there has been a definite drop in sales which is very sad because I'm just starting out.

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

I do not advocate piracy, but I do understand it.

.....

would just like to say, since my books started showing up on pirate sites there has been a definite drop in sales which is very sad because I'm just starting out.

I sort of feel the same way you do. I totally understand piracy, but don't encourage it. There have been a couple of times where someone downloaded something from a pirate site, and I totally understood the reason. (Someone ripped off a DVD of his when it was barely out of the shrink wrap - so he "got it back" via torrent. He felt somewhat justified because in reality, he wasn't the one doing the "stealing", the person who stole from him was and may as well have been the pirate - to this day I really can't blame him)

I also feel a bit more sympathy for authors who are "doing it right" (DRM-free, reasonable prices, connecting with their audience) who still get pirated. Not that other people "deserve it", but you know what I mean... especially since many people cite price and DRM restrictions among the reasons.

[Lynx-lynx]

Quote:Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
There would be only one set of circumstances in which I'd consider it ethically justifiable to pirate a book:

1. If no commercial eBook was available.

and:

2. I'd bought the paper book.

In those circumstances, I'd have no qualms about downloading a pirated eBook. However, if a commercial eBook did then become commercially available, I'd buy it.

So I'd have to answer "on occasions". Very rare occasions.

Originally Posted by arnique

These are also the main reasons I pirate books. However, the frequency is not on "very rare occasions" because of the geographic restrictions that many ebook publishers are bound by. I live outside the US so I often come up against that irritating wall. Not only does it take three-six months for the deadtree books to come to my local bookshop, I cannot legally purchase a commercial ebook.

SO conditions when I pirate ebooks:

1. No commercial ebook and/or deadtree book available in my region.
2. New authors. I need more than the usual free "preview" to decide whether I like his or her writing style. If I like the writer, I will buy the book in hardcover (if available) to "offset" the download.

Unlike HarryT though, I will not purchase the epub when it becomes commercially available, I will buy the deadtree book. In some ways, a physical book is the best one to have.

I ALWAYS buy commercial epub and/or deadtree of writers I've read before, even if the individual book turn out to be bad! I am more likely to purchase epubs (even of new authors) if they are self-published. The price tends to be more acceptable $1.99-5.99 and I feel like I'm actually contributing to the writers themselves.

I think there's another occasion for obtaining an ebook via 'unorthodox' means:

- if the paper version, nor the ebook version is available - irregardless of whether the author is still in copyright or not.

[Harper Kingsley]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

I also feel a bit more sympathy for authors who are "doing it right" (DRM-free, reasonable prices, connecting with their audience) who still get pirated. Not that other people "deserve it", but you know what I mean... especially since many people cite price and DRM restrictions among the reasons.

I've been toying with the idea of adding DRM to my Amazon books, and that kind of upsets me. I like being able to make my books available for everyone to read on whatever device, but Amazon offers the ebook return policy and I'm about 99% sure that some people buy my book, keep a copy, then get a refund. Plus, there was one that came out and ended up on a torrent site that same day and the only sale at that point was on Amazon... and it got returned

So at this point, I don't think DRM is why some people pirate. I just think there's some people out there that do it because they can. And I don't know how much having my books Lending enabled helps to give people second thoughts or anything.

[AndrewH]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

I've been toying with the idea of adding DRM to my Amazon books, and that kind of upsets me.

DRM doesn't prevent piracy, though.

[Harper Kingsley]

Originally Posted by AndrewH

DRM doesn't prevent piracy, though.

But then I can cackle in my palace of bones "Ah-haha, work at it biatches!" Nah, it's more like, there's some people that don't know how to crack DRM and maybe it will stop them from keeping a copy and getting a refund, at least until the 7 days expire. Then they're stuck with my book forever, and I'm stuck with their money and can buy the sandwiches or toilet paper

[AndrewH]

LOL!

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

For pirated books, someone paid for it, ...

Not if they returned it within 7 days.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Fbone

Not if they returned it within 7 days.

If someone were to repeatedly buy and return books, wouldn't that raise eyebrows? I can't imagine that a person can keep doing it again and again.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Harper Kingsley

But then I can cackle in my palace of bones "Ah-haha, work at it biatches!" Nah, it's more like, there's some people that don't know how to crack DRM and maybe it will stop them from keeping a copy and getting a refund, at least until the 7 days expire. Then they're stuck with my book forever, and I'm stuck with their money and can buy the sandwiches or toilet paper

Believe me, those degenerates who upload books to pirate sites have no problems at all removing DRM. It is a trivial matter that takes less than a minute. All DRM does is inconvenience your actual customers. They are stuck when they change ereaders or if something ever happens at Amazon. Or they have to read up on how to remove DRM.

[James_Wilde]

I haven't yet pirated an ebook - pirating a pbook is so ridiculous a concept it's not worth including here - but as a matter of course I strip off all DRM before using it, and I would have no compunction whatsoever about selling or giving away my copy to someone else, of course deleting any copy I have at the same time.

If I did pirate an ebook, it would probably be for the reason HarryT gave in one of the first comments, namely that no commercial version is available, but I wouldn't require myself to buy a paper copy. If I did that, I wouldn't need the electronic copy.

The idea that I should take out a license to read a book is anathema to me and an unjustifiable restriction of my rights. I am buying a product, just as people have done for centuries, not licensing it. Can you imagine agreeing to pay a license to use a lightbulb or a pair of shoes, or the food you buy in the grocery?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

If I did pirate an ebook, it would probably be for the reason HarryT gave in one of the first comments, namely that no commercial version is available, but I wouldn't require myself to buy a paper copy. If I did that, I wouldn't need the electronic copy.

The reason for buying the paper copy is not because you need it, but because you're stealing from the author if you don't buy it. Chuck it in the dustbin after you're bought it if you wish, but buy it.