Apple removing links to Consumer Reports study from forums

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by kjk

I missed that fact-when was that reported?

Engadget, Gizmodo, Crunchgear, etc. Furthermore your own poll results in the Apple section also came in along those lines when I looked into it a few days ago.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Engadget, Gizmodo, Crunchgear, etc. Furthermore your own poll results in the Apple section also came in along those lines when I looked into it a few days ago.

Online polls? Ok. (wasn't my poll, btw, since I don't own an iPhone 4 yet)

[clintbradford]

HansTWN >> ... Engadget, Gizmodo, Crunchgear, etc. Furthermore your own poll results in the Apple section also came in along those lines when I looked into it a few days ago ...


In other words, you are trusting those sources for being gospel. I find that irresponsible and rather silly. And it took us post after post to get you to actually cite your initial statement - indicating you really don't believe the numbers yourself.

Not a single source you cite has conducted a scientific poll of any legitimacy on this subject.

Why are you dismissing what Apple reported last week?

Clint Bradford

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by clintbradford

...

Why are you dismissing what Apple reported last week?

Clint Bradford

Perhaps because we have impartial tests from CR and AnandTech, which clearly show that there is an issue with attenuation.

Now I am waiting for Steve Jobs to pronounce cell service dead, and urge everyone to go WiFi only.

Or claim the "nobody uses phones without cases anymore."

The scary part is that some believe these things.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Perhaps because we have impartial tests from CR and AnandTech, which clearly show that there is an issue with attenuation.

Now I am waiting for Steve Jobs to pronounce cell service dead, and urge everyone to go WiFi only.

Or claim the "nobody uses phones without cases anymore."

The scary part is that some believe these things.

What did Apple say last week that refuted CR and Anandtech's findings?

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by m-reader

Unfortunately for this statement you just made there, not everybody lives in the USA. Some of those amendments you talk about scare three kinds of hell out of me (right to bear arms?).

What part of this topic doesn't fall under USA laws? I believe the companies and forums being discussed are all in the US, right?

I didn't think we were talking about the notion of "freedom of speech" as it relates to a global issue.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

What part of this topic doesn't fall under USA laws? I believe the companies and forums being discussed are all in the US, right?

I didn't think we were talking about the notion of "freedom of speech" as it relates to a global issue.

The web is a recent development and there are many aspects which are yet to be defined with respect to free speech. It took a while for the company town to be opened up, give the courts some time to open up company forums.

Anyway, there is really no excuse for removing links to a legitimate, relevant review, from one of the best known US consumer publications.

Originally Posted by kjk

What did Apple say last week that refuted CR and Anandtech's findings?

Uhm, how about something like "Steve says there is no problem - just soe stupid people holding the phone the wrong way. Totally overblown by hostile, backwards press! But here is a free case, 'cause Steve is a nice leader and He likes and cares about each one of you."

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Sonist

The web is a recent development and there are many aspects which are yet to be defined with respect to free speech.

I don't know about other countries, but it seems pretty well defined to me in the US.

Anyway, there is really no excuse for removing links to a legitimate, relevant review, from one of the best known US consumer publications.

That may or may not be true, but it has nothing to do with free speech.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Uhm, how about something like "Steve says there is no problem - just soe stupid people holding the phone the wrong way. Totally overblown by hostile, backwards press! But here is a free case, 'cause Steve is a nice leader and He likes and cares about each one of you."

I think the bigger issue was where he tried to claim that all phones suffer from this problem, and tried to imply that various other manufacturers have the same issue as the iPhone 4.

Of course, those other manufactureres weren't happy with the implication, and are starting to jump into the fray.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by kjk

What did Apple say last week that refuted CR and Anandtech's findings?

Nothing, He essentially pointed the finger to all other manufactures, RIM, Nokia, Samsung, and HTC and said ALL phones have this problem and went on to demo this problem. (Nothing scientific, just a lot of hand waving)


All carriers withing minutes retaliated with a retaliated with data and statistics to counter Apple's claims.


It was embarrassing, and only die hard Apple fans would defend this behavior.

Here is a transcript of the press release (...)

[kjk]

Originally Posted by =X=

Nothing, He essentially pointed the finger to all other manufactures, RIM, Nokia, Samsung, and HTC and said ALL phones have this problem and went on to demo this problem. (Nothing scientific, just a lot of hand waving)


All carriers withing minutes retaliated with a retaliated with data and statistics to counter Apple's claims.


It was embarrassing, and only die hard Apple fans would defend this behavior.

Here is a transcript of the press release (...)

Then why do Nokia, HTC, etc.. warn about the problem in their user manuals?

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I don't know about other countries, but it seems pretty well defined to me in the US....

This would be news to most courts in the US.

Even the relatively straightforward "network neutrality" question is not settled, although it is starting to look like it will go the way free speech advocates want.

The "public forum" issues in something like this action by Apple have not been settled, AFAIK. IMO, when it happens, it is more likely that the courts would rule against Apple, based on other "public forum" precedents.

Originally Posted by kjk

Then why do Nokia, HTC, etc.. warn about the problem in their user manuals?

Because attenuation happens to every phone.

But most other manufacturers have mitigated the issue, while the iPhone 4 drops calls.

Take a look at the AnandTech numbers and you'll notice that the iPhone 4, when held normally, drops twice as much as the HTC they compared it to.

[m-reader]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I didn't think we were talking about the notion of "freedom of speech" as it relates to a global issue.

I was actually thinking exactly that.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by kjk

Then why do Nokia, HTC, etc.. warn about the problem in their user manuals?

Okay I give up what are you trying to say? You asked what jobs said to refute CRs finding and I said nothing. The link you post does not counter CR report either.


The real issue isn't about attenuation, every device has issues in one form or another.

The issue for me is lack of respect, honesty, and integrity to their customers and the public.

In this situation Apple failed on all accounts.

1) People where reporting higher dropped calls and poor reception. Jobs responds by saying "no issues, your holding it wrong". This is not only a lie, but is straight out lack the respect for the customers who are facing a legit problem.
2) it takes a third party to expose the problem.
Here apple has the opportunity show integrity and make things right. Admit there is an issue and lay a path forward. What does Jobs do....
He throws everybody under a bus, continues to downplay the issue and out of 'love' for the customer gives away free bumpers that some how seem to fix the problem.


I understand most people have no issue dealing with a company that lacks respect, integrity, and honesty but I do and I would hope a few others do too.


=X=

[kjk]

Originally Posted by =X=

Okay I give up what are you trying to say? You asked what jobs said to refute CRs finding and I said nothing. The link you post does not counter CR report either.

Clint Bradford: Why are you dismissing what Apple reported last week?
Sonist: Perhaps because we have impartial tests from CR and AnandTech, which clearly show that there is an issue with attenuation.
kjk: What did Apple say last week that refuted CR and Anandtech's findings?

My point was that Apple didn't refute those findings, they validated them. They admitted that the iPhone 4 had a weak spot, and dropped bars when held a certain way. They didn't say "nothing". You also said the demonstration of other phones having the same issue was 'hand waving', and not scientific. Which is why I asked why they warn of the same issue in their user manuals.

Originally Posted by =X=

The issue for me is lack of respect, honesty, and integrity to their customers and the public.

Right, its a personal feeling about a company and their actions. Totally understandable.