iPad I beg every Apple Users' Attention!!

[tiananmen]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

You are making my point. The lowest wage in Shenzhen is 900. And workers at Foxconn get 2-3000 when they start. If they work they way up to supervisors they will get 4-5000, and so on. My point exactly, the workers at these factories are priviledged. You can fool people who don't know -- but you won't fool someone who understands the system.

When I came to China for the first time, the wages were less than 100. Yes, Foxconn charge for meals. Just for your info -- I had factory meals, not management meals, many times. Not great, but decent. How many farmers in China that do not work at Foxconn, or those that work at a local factory for 900 would love to have meals like that? The same meal would cost at least RMB 20 outside.

I take pity on those who died. Demonizing the wrong people (and a whole production system) won't bring them back. Neither you nor I know why they killed themselves, you are just assuming it was over working conditions.

it is not assuming,their posthumous letters were publicated.

4000 yuan? are you joking? even the Chinese propaganda xinhua news agency confessed the average salary is around rmb1900-2500. yours is higher .

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by tiananmen

it is not assuming,their posthumous letters were publicated.

4000 yuan? are you joking? even the Chinese propaganda xinhua news agency confessed the average salary is around rmb1900-2500. yours is higher .

We are not talking average. We are talking skilled workers who work for a factory that makes expensive products to exacting standards. I make any bet that Foxconn pays a lot more than average, they want good workers. So 2-3000 for an assembly worker (the pay will vary depending on their output) is definitely not a high estimate. A regular sewing machine operator in a Taiwanese or Hong Kong invested shoe or garment factory will make between 1300 and 2500. With special skills they will make more. The 4000 are for line supervisors, team leaders, etc. One of these persons will supervise dozens of people, why should they be paid only according to average wages? And electronics companies pay more than textile or shoe factories.

You are not reading what I have written. Companies like Foxconn pay a lot more than the average wage, thereby lifting the standards for workers everywhere. They are by no means saints without fault, but they have helped to greatly increase wages and living standards everywhere in China -- simply because workers have a choice and other factories have to offer attractive packages to get workers, especially good ones.

And with regard to the countrywide average figure. I don't believe it is anywhere near the 1900 range. Don't forget that farmers subsist on a few 100 RMB a month. And farmers are still 80% of the population. I am not singing the government propaganda's song here. The government has nothing to do with this.

You should be crying out against the small companies, among those you find the real sweat shops (though I don't want to make blanket accusations here) because they are below the radar of labor protection industries and out of the lime light of international attention. Why attack those that are actually leading the way to improve the workers situation?

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by mores

I know. I was being sarcastic, trying to show that I agree with you!

Just for the record

I was tired last night and it went right over my head. I reread it this morning and realized what you were getting at .

[JSWolf]

This thread really has nothing to do with Apple devices and should be moved.

[JGB]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Without getting into this debate, your comment misses the point entirely.

I'm not sure that it does. I worked in 4 factories here in Canada. 2 of them broke the working time laws, but I was 18 and didn't know that they couldn't. (12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, sometimes being called in on the 12 off to work for 15 minutes, occasional 18's etc)
The kinds of conditions I was exposed to by two of them I wouldn't wish on anyone. The only difference from China was the hourly rate was good. However, the factory my ex-girlfriends father works in(producing spark plugs)and a similar plant to mine provided much better conditions.

I am 22 now and I wake up every day feeling like I'm drowning, my lungs have permanent damage in all likely-hood that will be ongoing for as long as I live. and it feels like it's getting worse. If we don't even police our own companies here, why are we trying to police the companies of other countries? The factory that did that was owned by one of the biggest corporations in the world, everyone knew of the environmental disaster it was waiting to happen, even guys who work for the city, but problems always go away for this factory. The health and safety person brought up issues and was fired, the next one toed the company line completely, down to refusing to acknowledge a workers hernia was work related(he lifted 125 lb items 12 hours a day by himself, it was determined that carrying grocery bags was the cause of course) I was exposed to some nasty stuff, but the company did save almost 5$ a day on safety equipment that would have stopped it, some of it was like asbestos(stays in your body forever cutting and damaging) some of it was just chemical, so I get to watch what I eat and touch now to avoid reactions. The other was one of the largest in their area of production, and the factory is right in downtown Vancouver.
They merely exploited workers ignorance, a few minor exposure risks, to excessive smoke, hydrofluoric acid and associated fumes, and occasional risks of serious harm from the acid spills.


I've seriously considered moving to Asia, the safety standards are higher at the two factories I know of people working in, the workers are better cared for and the wages would provide me a higher standard of living there. Oh and medical care from the company? My plant manager sent me to a private clinic rather than my own GP, asked for all receipts and told me to avoid workers comp, everything would be covered. 3 months of waiting, now outside workers comp claim window, and I go to see him, he looks me up an down and says, forgot to tell you we don't cover you after all, then goes back to his computer. My GP won't do anything other than some bloodwork, and left it at that when I go to him later. Only last week I finally got a new doctor, and they realized I'd never been sent for the tests I should have been. Turns out my red blood cell count is way high, a sign of lungs not absorbing o2.


How about policing the companies exploiting workers right here first?

[leebase]

Clearly we all need to respond by ceasing to hype Android tablets and how they are going to put the iPad out of business "any day now". Obviously, these suicides are a message we should all pay attention to -- buy iPads and stop thinking that USB ports, Flash support, memory card support, changeable batteries and multi-tasking are essential. And for GOD'S sake, don't mention the Pixel Qi screen.

Can't you guys see how all this talk is causing these poor Foxconn workers to give up hope and KILL themselves?

Lee

[scottjl]

yes, because we know all android tablets will be made in the magical land of fair wages by adult unicorns.

[Fotoman]

By the way, I'm sure most of you have read by now that since this latest round of bad press about Foxconn they have announced a 20% wage increase, SJ has been quoted as saying he's "all over this," and a Chinese govt. official has gone on the record criticizing Foxconn.

The more cynical amongst us might see these as token PR gestures, but I see these gestures are better than no gestures at all regardless of their motive. Public opinion at work...

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by scottjl

yes, because we know all android tablets will be made in the magical land of fair wages by adult unicorns.

Especially the ones below $100.

[joblack]

Originally Posted by scottjl

yes, because we know all android tablets will be made in the magical land of fair wages by adult unicorns.

Typical Apple Fanboy answer.

It's not a real argument to say that other companies are doing it as well.

Otherwise you might always say:

Yeah but my neighbor is beating his wife, too.

Ridiculous ...

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by joblack

Typical Apple Fanboy answer.
...
Ridiculous ...

Not really. It was just an ironical answer. No reason to answer rudely..

[joblack]

Originally Posted by netseeker

Not really. It was just an ironical answer.

No it's not. It's the standard answer ('others are doing it, too') for people who don't have any more arguments.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by joblack

No it's not. It's the standard answer ('others are doing it, too') for people who don't have any more arguments.

I wrote an ironic post but it appears to have gone over your head. We have NO idea what's going on with the suicides. It's no more ridiculous to blame it on android than to ink it has anything to do with Apple.

Over 400,000 people work at Foxconn....they make products for lots and lots of customers besides Apple. We don't know if the suicides relate to their jobs at all. And yet, folks are quite happy to use anything to smear Apple.

Lee

[scottjl]

actually it wasn't meant to be "others are doing it too" it was meant to be a joke. but i guess you have no sense of humor, so you sit here putting down others, damn trolls..

[joblack]

Originally Posted by scottjl

but i guess you have no sense of humor, so you sit here putting down others, damn trolls..

How about giving constructive arguments in the future instead of holding the troll card every time something doesn't work your way?