iPad Why Flash Is Fundamentally Flawed On Touchscreen Devices

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Why do you dislike Flash for menus?

If I may add my opinion as well...

Flash menus can be nice if they're done right. I don't think I ever saw a good one, though.

kacir listed most of the problems already.
One that is important to me: tabs. A flash link can't be sent to a new tab. Or at least it couldn't, might be it's possible by now.

Also, I think it can't be repeated often enough - filesize. Even nowadays there are people who don't always have broadband access. Weird as it may be, every megabyte counts if you pay for them. Just think of "mobile internet access" - they're expensive and they count bytes.
("Don't go there" isn't much help when you NEED access to a site with flash navigation.)
(Of course, flash can be made with small files and HTML with huge files. But flashy editors tend to attract people who don't really know what they're doing.)

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by nikkie

Flash apps can already go in the app store. Adobe just released a flash to iPhone compiler not too long ago.

Not to mention companies like Zynga have already ported their flash games like Bejeweled into iPhone apps in the App Store.

[dmaul1114]

But again the problem is that sales of Bejeweled are cut down some by how many places you play it online for free. It still sells, but I know plenty of people (myself included) who play it sometimes but have never paid for it because there are many places to play online versions of it for free.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

But again the problem is that sales of Bejeweled are cut down some by how many places you play it online for free. It still sells, but I know plenty of people (myself included) who play it sometimes but have never paid for it because there are many places to play online versions of it for free.

Bejeweled has been one of the top 100 selling games in the App Store for almost 2 years now. You can also play it for free on the iPhone - http://www.popcap.com/iphone/

[dmaul1114]

I know, stuff can still sell. I've been amazed how much Bejeweled and some other games freely available on line sell.

So I do think Apple's fear is a bit misplaced. But I do think flash apps on websites would probably eat into sales of apps that aren't games and are used less often. All the various little apps to do one task--there's usually a web version with flash somewhere. If you play bejeweled a lot, it's probably worth buying so you don't have to be online to play. Some random app you use just every once in a while? Probably not worth the buck or two if there's a free version online.

But any case, it's all speculation as none of us really no why Apple doesn't support flash for sure.

All it matters is whether that's a big deal to you or not. It is to me as currently many websites I frequent make heavy use of Flash, and thus the browser on the iPad wouldn't fit my needs.

[paulckennedy]

It is a big deal to me as a developer.

By programming in Flex, I focus on making the app and not making it work right on the iPhone. Adobe just like Oracle and Microsoft has created a RunTime environment which crosses platforms. I simply program to the runtime environment and leave the hardware details to the implementation of the runtime itself.

Apple's view has always been that their way is the ONLY way. I don't buy it. I say wait a year and lets just see how BAD Flash 10.1 is on Android, WinMo, and all of the other mobile platforms.

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

I agree with that. I think the biggest part of Apple's hatred of flash is knowing that a lot of their app store that's making them a boatload of money are things you can do online for free using Flash. Lots of the games, etc.

According to apple themselves, the itunes store (including apps) is only a break-even service, its main benefit is promoting hardware sales rather than making money in its own right.

[Robert Minneman]

Originally Posted by Crowl

According to apple themselves, the itunes store (including apps) is only a break-even service, its main benefit is promoting hardware sales rather than making money in its own right.

I don't believe that. I believe that Apple understands that if they're seen as making a profit on iTunes when it comes to the App store, the general populace we'll realize what a bad thing it is for them long term.

I imagine that Apple is not making as much money as they'd like, but I'm sure the "hand over fist" level of income they're more than likely adequate. To ever get to the "backing up the dump trucks of cash" level of income they want, it will probably require a major shift in their share of the PC market.

Though the iPad, given enough improvements could help in that area.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Tamara

Do you work for Apple that you know what their future plans are for the iPad? If so what are future updates going to contain?

Tamara, I don't work for Apple, but I speak from experience.

Calls for multitasking have been around for as long as the iPhone has been on the market. Slowly, Apple has provided "multitasking" for some of its own apps, but it has largely refused to do so for third party apps.

There is little reason to expect that Apple will introduce a product without multitasking, then turn around and "easily," as you say, add it soon thereafter through firmware upgrade. Look how many years it took to get Search and Cut&Paste on the iPhone.

You've made some strange claims about Apple products, such as "The iPhone and the iPod Touch both use IPS screens," and "Multitasking could easily be built into the OS on the iPad just through a firmware update." Since neither is true, based on my admittedly limited knowledge, am I to assume that you work for Apple (and are "in the know," or just spreading misinformation)?

Originally Posted by Tamara

Allowing Flash on the iPhone would have no impact on the App Store. ...
The big problem with Flash on the Mac platform (and Adobe has admitted this) is the fact that Flash is a resource and battery hog....

Pray tell, why do you think Flash on the iPhone "would have no impact on the App Store?" Because, with Flash, developers can completely bypass the App Store, and media providers can bypass Apple as well.

The App Store is estimated to bring Apple $1.4 billion in revenue, with an estimated $250 million in profit. The media sales would likely be at least as significant.

That's a lot of reasons for Jobs to wall the iPad off and to keep Flash out for as long as he can. I just hope that the Androids force the issue and make him do a 180 and tell us how great the new and improved iPad v2 with Flash is....

Oh, and this "battery hog" is largely hogwash. All video is battery hog, period, and Flash supports H.264 nowadays, just like QT. Why do you think HTML5 video would be somehow that much better?

[jibril]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Calls for multitasking have been around for as long as the iPhone has been on the market.

So has calls for a physical keyboard by some.

Can't please everyone. (Not saying multitasking is good or not. Just that all design decisions have pros and cons.)

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by jibril

So has calls for a physical keyboard by some.

Can't please everyone. (Not saying multitasking is good or not. Just that all design decisions have pros and cons.)

Not sure this is a good comparison.

Most were clamoring for Cut/Paste, Search, push notifications, Flash, MMS, video recording, multitasking and GPS. The physical keyboard was not even a blip among those.

At every point, there were some of the faithful, who defended to the death Apple's decision not to offer some option which was ubiquitous on every other device.

(I personally found the "I don't need no freakin' Cut/Paste and Search" defenders the funniest and the weirdest).

There is so much nonsense floating on the attempts to justify the lack of Flash on the iPad, which is advertised as "The best way to experience the web. Hands down."

I can't wait to hear the same crowd sing Hallelujah to Jobs, when he introduces iPad v.3 as "The best way to experience the most exciting Flash content on the web."

[paulckennedy]

I have been using my new eDGe to cruise the internet all weekend and I can say infatically that I miss Flash. I don't see how much different the experience on the iPad can be without it. There is a lot of missing functionality with having a full web experience while having huge holes. I have the Android browser set in Desktop mode so other than having the multitouch ability of the iPad, the eDGe should be a pretty good match.

[jibril]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Not sure this is a good comparison.

Most were clamoring for Cut/Paste, Search, push notifications, Flash, MMS, video recording, multitasking and GPS. The physical keyboard was not even a blip among those.

Eh, you'll always find something. On /., the calls for a keyboard were pretty damn loud after it was unveiled at the WWDC 2007 but before the phone came out. It still is, to an extent.

Cut/Paste and GPS are pretty nice and I wouldn't want to be without it.

But I actually turned off push notifications to save battery life.

I can see instances where multitasking is useful, I wish Pandora acted like iPod part, where I can do other things while listening to music... but I would hate to hit the home button and have running processes wasting battery life at the same time.

Like push, if it ever comes out, I hope one can opt-out. None of the other things on the list interest me, but I don't begrudge those who want it.

I can't wait to hear the same crowd sing Hallelujah to Jobs, when he introduces iPad v.3 as "The best way to experience the most exciting Flash content on the web."

I hope the next version has a card reader and GPS (if this one doesn't have it). I was thinking if there was a way to get mac programs running on it... but then it hit me as unlikely as the CPU has a different architecture.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by jibril

...
I can see instances where multitasking is useful, I wish Pandora acted like iPod part, where I can do other things while listening to music... but I would hate to hit the home button and have running processes wasting battery life at the same time...

Well, do you have major battery issues with the multitasking capabilities of the "iPod part?" Apple implemented multitasking for its own apps, but not for most third party ones. Users are generally not absolute morons and can figure out that Pandora is running, just like they do with the iPod.

But, frankly, I personally don't miss multitasking, but was just responding to Tamara's comment.

The big deal-breaker for me is the lack of Flash on a large-screen web-browsing device.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by paulckennedy

I have been using my new eDGe to cruise the internet all weekend and I can say infatically that I miss Flash. I don't see how much different the experience on the iPad can be without it. There is a lot of missing functionality with having a full web experience while having huge holes. I have the Android browser set in Desktop mode so other than having the multitouch ability of the iPad, the eDGe should be a pretty good match.

I've had my iPhone for almost 2 years now and I haven't missed flash at all.