Where your eBook money goes

[Seli]

Originally Posted by mcl

There's a huge difference between "being careful" and "trying mightily to kill off a new market". Right now, the publishers are doing the latter.

My interpretation is that they are putting their foots full on the break to give themselves and their traditional partners as much time as possible to adapt. I just hope they don't look to the academic publishing market too much for inspiration, because that will kill them.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

I think Bezos is an expert-or at least hires experts-although I'm not certain he's telling the truth. I'd prefer to develop the figures myself, but I haven't found any so far.

There's a problem with his quote: "When we have both editions, we sell six Kindle books for every 10 physical books." Does he mean, "we sell 10 new Amazon-official copies for every 6 ebook copies," or "we sell 10 copies, new or used, Amazon or 3rd party distributor, for every 6 Kbooks?"

The second would be impressive ebook data; the first is negligible.

Several studies have shown that people who buy ebooks tend to buy more books, on avarage, than people who buy pbooks. No studies, that I know of, have tested for cross-correlation (i.e. most people who buy ebooks also buy pbooks-so how does that skew the 'market growth' figures?)

I've bought more ebooks in the past two years than non-RPG pbooks in the last ten. (Somehow, I suspect the gaming book market is not going to prop up Macmillan and Hatchette. Especially the indie press gaming book market.) Possibly I've bought more individual ebooks than I've bought gaming books in the last ten years. Definitely, if I count Fictionwise's short stories as individual ebooks. I'm never sure what I think about those.

I'm more likely to buy a new pbook now that I was 5 years ago; now I consider it something to chop, scan & convert. However, most of my pbook purchases remain used--no royalties to authors, no profits to publishers. My ebook purchases, small as they are, all benefit the authors & sometimes publishers. (Sometimes, the author is the publisher.)

So... I'm a solid potential ebook customer: I wasn't going to buy a new pbook anyway, but I might buy a new ebook. If the format's usable. If there's no DRM. (Right now, my home computer's not set up to deal with any DRM.) If the price isn't too high. If I don't have to jump through too many hoops to get it. If I'm more-than-reasonably sure of enjoying it, because I can't easily hand it off or sell it to Other Change of Hobbit if I didn't care for it.

Macmillan's sure not making any effort to convince me to buy their books. I'd buy Tor books, except they're not available. Instead, my next available money for ebooks is designated for the PC Hodgell collection at Baen, and two books by ZA Maxfield at Omnilit. (All of which I know I could torrent. All of which I very much want to be reading *now*. I am pretending I have real ethics, and not downloading free books from authors I actively want to support. In the meantime, I console myself 80,000-word fanfics.)

[Lemurion]

The Hodgell collection is very good.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

The Hodgell collection is very good.

God Stalk was one of my favorite books as a teen. I didn't know until last month that there were sequels. Apparently, several sequels.

I am *beyond thrilled* that they're available at Baen.

[Lemurion]

I bought the whole pack when it came out - I hope you enjoy it.

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I bought the whole pack when it came out - I hope you enjoy it.

Don't you love clicking the "Heck with it, just get the entire series" button? I'm glad that doesn't happen more often or else the budget would be in even worse shape.

[Mare of Earth]

Having just purchased the first two of the God Stalk series, did you notice that you can buy all of them for $25, or you can buy The God Stalker Chronicles (books 1 & 2), Seeker's Bane (books 3 & 4) and Blood & Ivory: A Tapestry for $17 total?

Something I am confused by - everyone always includes Marketing as one of the expenses in producing a book. Most of the books I buy don't have much in the way of marketing - maybe an email, or a mention on MobileRead. How much is spent on marketing?

Also - the base production costs - ebook or pbook - include things like proofreading, etc. Why don't they build the pricing model like this then:

Initial Production Costs (advertising, formatting, proofreading)
=
ebook
formatting
DRM (evil!)
webhosting
=
hardcover
formatting(print)
printing
distribution
=
paperback
formatting (print)
printing
distribution

I am sure there are other costs involved - however, why don't they pool the common production costs, then have a base price for the book before they split off for the specialized costs of the release format. ie. It costs 10k for initial production costs on a new book. You are going to produce three formats, so 10k/3 = 3.33k You have addt'l costs per edition - say 2k for ebook format, and you estimate you will sell 1.5k copies total production cost for ebook format = 3.33k+2k+profit margin (10%)+royalty (10%)= 6.396k/1.5k copies = $4.27 per ebook.

Of course, these numbers aren't "real", but it would be nice to actually see the production costs on a book, and see where the specific costs per format break down.

If they insist it costs so much to create an ebook, I want to see it in real numbers, so I can be an informed consumer!

[Lemurion]

I bought the whole set when they first came out - and Baen discounts them for the first three months.

As to your point about ebook pricing, I very much agree with you. However, there have been a number of people on this forum arguing that ebooks are free to produce or nearly so because they should not be expected to carry any of the costs incurred before the fork. (Which also include the costs of acquiring the book - author's advance etc.) That's where I have my problem with the ebooks are free to produce; they should be covering a share of the initial costs.

[igorsk]

Originally Posted by Mare of Earth

Having just purchased the first two of the God Stalk series, did you notice that you can buy all of them for $25, or you can buy The God Stalker Chronicles (books 1 & 2), Seeker's Bane (books 3 & 4) and Blood & Ivory: A Tapestry for $17 total?

The $25 bundle was the first thing that appeared on Webscriptions (and it was $20 for the first three months), it included original editions of books as published by Meisha Merlin. The later omnibus editions are from Baen, with (some?) in-house editing and new covers.
BTW, (you probably know it, but) Bound in Blood is available in e-ARC and the final version will appear in the March Webscription (should be up in a week or so).

[Mare of Earth]

I agree - they should be absorbing their share of the initial costs - however, they shouldn't be absorbing the costs of producing a hardcover. It seems the way the current pricing model works is more:

Production costs for hardcover and ebook release/total number of potential sales = same price for both editions.

This production model I don't agree with. If they want to milk the hardcover sales, then delay the ebook release and have the ebook release at the same time as the paperback. The last TOR book I purchased I had to wait a few months before the ebook price became comparable to the already released paperback price, long after the hardcovers had been clearanced out.
Just like with paperback vs. hardcover before ebooks, I generally have so much to read I am more than willing to wait for the cheaper edition (cause I'm poor), I just see it as massively unfair to expect ebook readers to pay the hardcover price when it did not cost that much to produce the ebook. Pick a profit margin and stick to it across the board, instead of gouging those of us who purchase digital formats.

I moved to ebooks due to space and flammability issues, and spent many years reading my ebooks on my computer or my Palm M105 and it's successors. I finally got a Sony 505 last spring for $125, and the screen size is much better! I am of the people who wait for cutting edge to reduce in price to where I can afford it without having to eat ramen for a few months to make up the difference, and am happy to stick with my thrifty ways - I do, however, wish for my business to be appreciated and treated as equal to those who purchase paper books!

[Mare of Earth]

Originally Posted by igorsk

The $25 bundle was the first thing that appeared on Webscriptions (and it was $20 for the first three months), it included original editions of books as published by Meisha Merlin. The later omnibus editions are from Baen, with (some?) in-house editing and new covers.
BTW, (you probably know it, but) Bound in Blood is available in e-ARC and the final version will appear in the March Webscription (should be up in a week or so).

Not having read any of this series yet, I purchased the first omnibus, and, if I like it, I will go on to purchase the rest of the books. I am hoping I like it, because the blurbs sound good, however, there have been many authors that I loved the first books, but the storytelling just went downhill (*cough*LaurellKHamilton*cough*) or that, while the concept was great, the way the story was written just didn't suit me (or highly offended me *cough*PiersAnthonyTheCaterpillarsQuestion*cough*) .

I do hope I like this one though!