The death of print ... (or, does DRM drive you to piracy?) - Page 5

animedude01 · 12-23-2009, 01:37 AM

I'd buy a used copy of the pbook and grab a copy of the ebook off the net. If I can't find an ebook version, I'll just read the pbook. Been there, done that, won't buy unbreakable DRM versions.

Oh yeah... library option too

Blue Tyson · 12-23-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happysnapper22

Dont crash, can be loaned, borrowed, sold on, purchased cheap in charity shops and the print qualiaty is miles better than eReaders.

Having looked at a eReader - I'll stick to the printed stuff.

Yeah, right. Find them cheap in Jamaica or Bulgaria or Australia. Coz, y'know those publisher people don't, you know, in most places, actually publish.

Oh, didn't think of that?

No shock there.

Crusader · 12-23-2009, 03:13 AM

The geo-restrictions are just plain crazy. With the nice spesials Fictionwise are having I would easily have spend more than a $150 with them if I could buy the books I wanted. In the end I had to settle for those I could get for my region and only spent $20.

Blue Tyson · 12-23-2009, 05:01 AM

Yes, georestriction is a Biddlonian word meaning 'make lots less money, forever'.

Blue Tyson · 12-23-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenomshel

I voted option 1 - purchase the title anyway, as my last few bouts of purchasing have been since Kindle for PC came out and I can now get some of those titles I didn't have access to before. They're available nowhere else, and unfortunately, the reason for that is that all but one are Topaz. I don't want to buy more print books, not only do I have a small house, but I love the infinite backupability (yeah, I know, but it's a word NOW, *grin*) of electronic formats. So, I took a gamble that either A. Amazon won't go out of business and that B. someone will eventually crack Topaz, and bought them anyway.

Speaking of which, anyone tried screen capture with Kindle for PC on a Topaz book? Be interesting to know if it OCRs at a decent standard.

djgreedo · 12-24-2009, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moejoe

DRM used to drive me to piracy, now it just drives me away. Any writer or publisher who allows DRM on their work I bypass altogether. There's plenty of great fiction available without clueless DRM schemes and I won't put another penny into a system that promotes DRM.

The way I understand it most writers don't have a say in the matter. Once they are contracted to a publisher those kinds of decisions are up to the publisher. I actually emailed an author regarding getting a DRM-free copy of his book. He told me that his publisher is still 'in the dark ages' in such matters and that there was nothing he could do about it.

Of course there are authors who support DRM. Stupid authors in my opinion.

djgreedo · 12-24-2009, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fugazied

Also at the minimum, any attempt at DRM has to offer the same rights/usage as with a printed book, and most of them don't.

I think it's unfair to expect the same rights (or rather capabilities) for ebooks as for paper books.

I think the rights and functionality for media should be related to fair use, common sense, and the medium.

For example, lending an ebook is not the same as lending a paper book, since you will effectively be creating a copy and giving it away. No 'secure' form of lending is possible without DRM being applied. An example of this sort of thing is the Zune mp3 player. Zune has (had?) the ability to send songs to other users over WiFi. The user who received the song got DRM restrictions placed on listening to it a maximum of 3 times. That specific scenario wouldn't translate well into ebooks though.

What about selling an ebook? I don't think that is necessarily a right that should be transferred from paper books. Of course prices for ebooks should be lowered to take into account that owners can't sell them if that 'right' is taken away. I feel that part of the value of a paper book is the physical object.

DawnFalcon · 12-24-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djgreedo

I actually emailed an author regarding getting a DRM-free copy of his book. He told me that his publisher is still 'in the dark ages' in such matters and that there was nothing he could do about it.

Did he take his next series to another publisher? That's the critical test there.

PKFFW · 12-25-2009, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Did he take his next series to another publisher? That's the critical test there.

The author may very well have a contract for his next series with his current publisher. Often it isn't easy or convenient(nor, one might argue, desirable) to break ones word and renege on an agreement simply because the publisher doesn't do things the way one would like. Assuming, of course, the publisher is not breaking the terms of the agreement to begin with.

Cheers,
PKFFW

DawnFalcon · 12-25-2009, 04:13 AM

Mm-hum. Don't really care, if he sticks with it despite the fact they're deliberately restricting his circulation, I'm quite happy to put the author on my second-hand-only list.

Solicitous · 12-25-2009, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

You mean, if you were looking to buy Harry Potter as an ebook on the web, but then discovered, that it is simply not available for sale, you wouldn't be tempted to take a peek at one of the myriad "unofficial" copies, which pop up during the search...

? If so, for real, then

Provided I bought the paperback because the ebook wasn't released then I would not have a problem with it (I prefer to read on my ereader), that way the author doesn't lose out.

I myself didn't vote as DRM doesn't drive me to piracy....yet. I have not been bitten by the DRM-snake yet, so all is good my end of the woods. What does drive me to piracy is geographic restrictions. Ebooks for sale, I am able and willing to buy it, but am refused sale because of my country of origin. And who misses out? The publisher and more importantly the author misses out on my money.

PKFFW · 12-25-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Mm-hum. Don't really care, if he sticks with it despite the fact they're deliberately restricting his circulation, I'm quite happy to put the author on my second-hand-only list.

As is your right.

However, in many, if not most, cases the author is not choosing to "stick with it". The author has given their word and entered into an agreement. A legally binding one at that.

Cheers,
PKFFW

DawnFalcon · 12-25-2009, 06:20 PM

Deliberately restricting circulation is grounds for breach of contract, so..no.

PKFFW · 12-26-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Deliberately restricting circulation is grounds for breach of contract, so..no.

Actually that would depend entirely upon what is in the contract and whether what is in the contract was considered to be legal.

There is no legislation that would specifically prohibit restricting circulation that I am aware of. There are many varied and completely legal reasons why a publisher may restrict circulation. A similar case would be when one tv network poaches a rival networks star and then doesn't put them in any show for the term of their contract, thus diminishing their future pulling power and "star" status. In both cases the behaviour may be distasteful but it certainly isn't in breach of any contract unless the contract specifically disallows it.

But of course the reasons don't matter to the end result. If you would prefer to buy the authors books from a second hand shop that is entirely up to you and is a fair and resonable way of avoiding purchasing ebooks with DRM.

Cheers,
PKFFW

Ferns · 12-26-2009, 05:15 AM

In my opinion DRM isn't the only thing that would drive people to piracy in the UK anyway. Waterstones is probably our best known chain of book stores, and browsing their ebook offerings, it struck me that the prices they ask, in many cases, aren't that much cheaper than their paperback prices. Given the massive reduction in overheads when selling ebooks, it really irritates me me that rather than make a fair profit, companies like that appear to want to rip every last penny they can from customers.

View Poll Results: If a title has DRM which you cannot strip, do you:
Still purchase the title, even if locked to a device/server	45	23.56%
Look for alternatives, including "pirate" sites, but if not found, purchase the DRM-ed title	30	15.71%
Refuse to purchase, either wait for a breakable DRM version, or "pirate"	116	60.73%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

12-23-2009, 01:37 AM	#61
animedude01 Addict Posts: 254 Karma: 1200 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles Device: DR1000S, ILIAD2, Nokia n900, Kindle for PC, Astak EZReader Pro	I'd buy a used copy of the pbook and grab a copy of the ebook off the net. If I can't find an ebook version, I'll just read the pbook. Been there, done that, won't buy unbreakable DRM versions. Oh yeah... library option too Last edited by animedude01; 12-23-2009 at 01:38 AM. Reason: added library copy.

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12-23-2009, 03:13 AM	#63
Crusader Space Cadet Posts: 1,180 Karma: 4030536 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: South Africa Device: Sony PRS-T1, Cybook Opus, Kobo Glo	The geo-restrictions are just plain crazy. With the nice spesials Fictionwise are having I would easily have spend more than a $150 with them if I could buy the books I wanted. In the end I had to settle for those I could get for my region and only spent $20.

12-23-2009, 05:01 AM	#64
Blue Tyson Blue Captain Posts: 1,595 Karma: 5000236 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Australia Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G,Huawei Ideos X3,Kobo Mini	Yes, georestriction is a Biddlonian word meaning 'make lots less money, forever'.

12-25-2009, 04:13 AM	#70
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Mm-hum. Don't really care, if he sticks with it despite the fact they're deliberately restricting his circulation, I'm quite happy to put the author on my second-hand-only list.

12-25-2009, 06:20 PM	#73
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	Deliberately restricting circulation is grounds for breach of contract, so..no.

12-26-2009, 05:15 AM	#75
Ferns Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Sony PRS-505	In my opinion DRM isn't the only thing that would drive people to piracy in the UK anyway. Waterstones is probably our best known chain of book stores, and browsing their ebook offerings, it struck me that the prices they ask, in many cases, aren't that much cheaper than their paperback prices. Given the massive reduction in overheads when selling ebooks, it really irritates me me that rather than make a fair profit, companies like that appear to want to rip every last penny they can from customers.

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