Kindle Geographic Restrictions On US Website - Against US Buyers

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

But the contracts distribution clause probably had to do primarily with physical books without much consideration of electronic distribution which is only now coming to the fore.

Well, yes. But it was perfectly possible to structure the market in another way and they chose not to do it. And now they are responsible for the consequences.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Who do you think created this kind of contracts and insisted on them when signing deals with authors? From what I know it was the publishers. So I really do not see how it is not the publishers fault.

Who "created" the contracts? One could equally "blame" the author for signing different distribution contracts with (for example) a UK and a US publisher.

If those contracts pre-dated eBook Stores, it is a little unreasonable to expect anyone to have "foreseen" the problems which would arise in the future.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Who "created" the contracts? One could equally "blame" the author for signing different distribution contracts with (for example) a UK and a US publisher.

If those contracts pre-dated eBook Stores, it is a little unreasonable to expect anyone to have "foreseen" the problems which would arise in the future.

From what I have read and heard it was the publishers that insisted on the current split. It was not the authors.

You are still responsible for the consequences of your actions even if you cannot reason correctly about them.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Who "created" the contracts? One could equally "blame" the author for signing different distribution contracts with (for example) a UK and a US publisher.

That's OK in two cases when:

1.- Contracts are old
2.- There're distribution in US and UK.

But if, neither 1 nor 2 are right, whom can you blame then? I'm afraid there're "standard" contracts...

[CommanderROR]

@HarryT

explain one thing to me please: why can I buy any book I like on amazon.de in paper form, why can I buy any book at booksonboard no matter what the author or publisher but the same does not work for the kindle store? what use is a contract that is sometimes valid and sometimes not and why does it seem that kindle edition books get geo restrictions but p books don't? and if not the publishers...who is to blame??? The customers? the darknet???

[queentess]

Originally Posted by ficbot

I'm glad, actually. Maybe now Americans will get angry and help the rest of us, who have long been struggling with this, pressure the publishers to change their ways.

This is hardly anything new for US buyers. Ever try to be a US-based video game buyer? I have to import everything all sneaky like from Japan AND buy a separate gaming system just to run the games. What about the Region 9 DVD I accidentally purchased and then couldn't use? This is nothing new for any location in the world. Geographic restrictions are ridiculous for all media types.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Alisa

On a side note, I'm saddened to see so much spite against Americans here. In general, Americans on this board have been against geographical restrictions as much as anyone else. Besides it's not as if we are just now having restrictions. We just get to see them highlighted because of Amazon's new set up. I hate being critical but that really left a bad taste in my mouth so I felt I should say something.

Yeah, it's not just you. I've all but stopped coming to these boards because the forums are becoming so anti-American. Every other post is about how stupid I am for purchasing a Kindle and how I'll never understand anything about ebook restrictions because I'm American. Bah.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

@HarryT

explain one thing to me please: why can I buy any book I like on amazon.de in paper form, why can I buy any book at booksonboard no matter what the author or publisher but the same does not work for the kindle store? what use is a contract that is sometimes valid and sometimes not and why does it seem that kindle edition books get geo restrictions but p books don't? and if not the publishers...who is to blame??? The customers? the darknet???

My understanding is has to do with what is considered to be the "Point of Sale"

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by queentess

Yeah, it's not just you. I've all but stopped coming to these boards because the forums are becoming so anti-American. Every other post is about how stupid I am for purchasing a Kindle and how I'll never understand anything about ebook restrictions because I'm American. Bah.

Huh? Really? I guess I've not seen that. Certainly I (as a U.S. Citizen) have some issues with Amazon and their proprietary format etc. but they have a great selection of ebooks etc.

[Striking Claw]

I think the argument that we have those regional restrictions because eBooks are new and the contracts didn't take them into account doesn't hold.
I bought 4 books in the Orphan-Serie as an eBook but the newest one can't be bought outside of US or Canada, the same is true for other series. So those restrictions are newly created.
The comparison with video games or DVDs also doesn't really work, because while you may need different hardware most online shops will sell you the software and the hardware you need regardless of your country of origin.

[lordvetinari2]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

I went browsing int he Kindle section and could not find ANY books by my favourite author Terry Pratchett. <snip> Pratchett is a UK author, so why can US residents buy the books and EU residents can't? Can anyone see what is wrong with this image?

I share Cory Doctorow's love/hate relationship with Amazon being so good at selling physical goods, but horrible at selling digital stuff. This includes me bashing Amazon for the 1984 incident, so I was already biased against the Kindle.

However, when Amazon opened the Kindle gates to the world the other day, I thought I would give them a second chance because of the excellent selection and the low prices (compared to the competition).
Then I noticed the higher prices because of the AT&T roaming, the higher VAT taxes in Europe and whatever "administration costs" Amazon says they have for selling from the US. Buying in USD would also mean currency conversion fees from my bank. The low prices benefit was gone, since it is now more expensive to buy an ebook than the paperback.
What about the excellent selection? It was a deal breaker for me when I noticed that there were no PTerry books for European Kindle customers. I know it's not Amazon fault, but I would like to know whose fault it is. The publishers'? The -Om forbid- the author? Probably the publishing world's status quo, which is the same as saying it's no one's fault, but the customer pays the price, as usual.

Since I am going to the First Irish Discworld Convention next month, I think I will ask either Sir Pratchett or his agent, Mr Smythe. I am not sure what kind of reply (if any) I will get, but I will be back here with the results.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Striking Claw

I think the argument that we have those regional restrictions because eBooks are new and the contracts didn't take them into account doesn't hold.
I bought 4 books in the Orphan-Serie as an eBook but the newest one can't be bought outside of US or Canada, the same is true for other series. So those restrictions are newly created.
The comparison with video games or DVDs also doesn't really work, because while you may need different hardware most online shops will sell you the software and the hardware you need regardless of your country of origin.

or the older versions had no restrictions in the contract because no one expected them to be ebooks. Newer books probably include an ebook/electronic clause/section.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by kennyc

or the older versions had no restrictions in the contract because no one expected them to be ebooks. Newer books probably include an ebook/electronic clause/section.

That or the old ones have restrictions that have missed being enforced. The whole geo restriction enforcement thing didn't start being a big deal until fairly recently, not that there weren't restrictions before that. IIRC the big problems started in January when Hachette pulled their ebook titles until stores could put some geo restrictions in place.

[CommanderROR]

Maybe I'm stupid, but I still don't get it...

Why does something digital have geo-restriction when it's physical counterpart has none? And why does the same book have geo-restrictions as a Kindle title but none as a Cybook/Sony/random mobipocket device title? Why can I buy just about all Pratchett books from booksonboard? The author can't be the problem here, and actually the publisher might be the same for the kindle and the mobipocket version...so Amazon has to somehow be the culprit...but why???

I smell a fish, but although I spent most of the day pulling up the floorboards I have been unable to find it...

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by CommanderROR

Why can I buy just about all Pratchett books from booksonboard? The author can't be the problem here, and actually the publisher might be the same for the kindle and the mobipocket version...so Amazon has to somehow be the culprit...but why???

Are you referring to BoB UK when you say Books On Board or the US site?

I'm not quite sure how they can sell Pratchett books to the UK on BoB UK the way they do. They list Harper Collins as the publisher. Harper is the US publisher, the UK publisher is Transworld (part of Random House UK). The publisher does sell some/most? of his ebooks on their rBooks.co.uk site. Some of the books on the BoB UK site list US Only even though they're on the UK site which seems odd. Amazon doesn't have an agreement (yet?) with Random House UK to sell their titles for the Kindle.

It's all quite confusing.