CyBook - so frustrating!

[HarryT]

The best "storage format" is, I think, HTML. You can easily convert from HTML to any device-specific format. At the moment I'm concentrating on Mobipocket books simply because that's what the Gen3 is best at. I may start producing ePub books if I get a device with good support for that format. But storing things in HTML is pretty "future proof".

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by tompe

And that is extremely bad and the main reason you should not use MobiPocket. Essentially there is no MobiPocket format since it is a moving target.

Yeah, OK... (from this and other comments) now everybody knows you hate Mobipocket format. Can we keep it at that?! You say it's evil, I (and many others) like it and especially on the CyBook this is the only format that has never let me down.

Hopefully you soon can switch to ePUB and everything will be OK...

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So are many formats. PDF and DOC (Word) format to name but two. That doesn't prevent them from being practically useful, even if they are not officially documented. As long as the "owner" of the format provides reasonable tools for creating the files, that's all that really matters.

I am pretty sure that PDF has a version number and is well specified. If the DOC format is still secret and not well specified than this is still a bad thing.

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So are many formats. PDF and DOC (Word) format to name but two. That doesn't prevent them from being practically useful, even if they are not officially documented. As long as the "owner" of the format provides reasonable tools for creating the files, that's all that really matters.

The difference with the two formats mentioned is that you can still open earlier versions in the latest software from the corresponding company and can expect them to come out as the used to in older versions. There is a limit to that, of course, somewhere as I doubt anyone can guarantee that a Word 1.0 for DOS file is still going to open and look like what you saw some 20 years ago but that's an different kind of "long ago" than what mobi can argue. Plus, I am pretty sure that you could still convert those ancient formats if you had access to intermediate versions of Word as it usually supports import of documents quite a few versions back. With one or two rounds of installing an earlier word in a virtual machine with their respective flavour of windows it should be possible - though definitely cumbersome.

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Yeah, OK... (from this and other comments) now everybody knows you hate Mobipocket format. Can we keep it at that?! You say it's evil, I (and many others) like it and especially on the CyBook this is the only format that has never let me down.

Hopefully you soon can switch to ePUB and everything will be OK...

I think you two are talking about different things:

One side is that the format works and is well supported by the device

The other side is that the outlook on the future of a format is not good when it is not open, not liberally licensed and not even well documented so one knows which version does what.

I think that mobi works very well on the Cybook and convert most of my news feeds, e.g, into that format. But I have to agree with tompe on that it does not look good for the future of the format. Even a huge company like Amazon cannot change the direction the market is going (even MS has pretty much given in to the pressure and adopted an "open" format for their office software, although they are still trying to make it "not too open").

I think from tompe's perspective it's just the same as with your stating that you're an anti-drm advocate. You probably don't "hate" drm with a vengeance but you have excellent reasons to argue that drm is bad (with which I agree, btw) and that you would not want to use it - even if it works (for the time being).

[K-Thom]

One side is that the format works and is well supported by the device

The other side is that the outlook on the future of a format is not good when it is not open, not liberally licensed and not even well documented so one knows which version does what.

Take the German market for example. Mobipocket does exist for years. But besides Mobipocket.de itself only two eBook stores supported it, beam-ebooks.de and libri.de. Libri actually is a large retailer selling books, audio books and eBooks.

Now, as soon as the Sony Reader appeared in Germany, libri.de switched to epub within days. They still sell the prc content, but you have to look for the link waaaay below the folded out epub menu.
Since then especially the major book retailers (who didn't consider eBooks till then) all are focused on epub, with Weltbild being one force behind the development of an epub-Cybook firmware.

And beam-ebooks.de just eliminated all DRM-eBooks which means their whole stock of Mobipocket prc.

At least here the future doesn't look that bright for Mobipocket/prc.

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by Snuffi

I think you two are talking about different things:

One side is that the format works and is well supported by the device

The other side is that the outlook on the future of a format is not good when it is not open, not liberally licensed and not even well documented...

...You probably don't "hate" drm with a vengeance but you have excellent reasons to argue that drm is bad (with which I agree, btw) and that you would not want to use it - even if it works (for the time being).

Agreed, but:

- ePUB looks promising, but is not really finished yet... (both on the CyBook and as a format)

- From a readers point of view everything's fine with Mobi. All the books work, there's lots of features (adjustable fonts/sizes/etc., justification, dictionary support) + there's a tool to convert most other formats and even one to create books yourself. All other things have some kind of academical nature - I enjoy drinking Coke without exactly knowing what's inside...

- DRM has never and will never "work", it's the disease...

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

And beam-ebooks.de just eliminated all DRM-eBooks which means their whole stock of Mobipocket prc.

At least here the future doesn't look that bright for Mobipocket/prc.

Sorry, but that is simply not true... There's lots of Mobipocket books still available on beam-ebooks.de.

I'd prefer the industry to adopt ONE standard for eBooks (if it's Mobi, ePUB or whatever) that is at least as good as all the existing formats (so no dictionary support of ePUB is kind of problematic).

The current situation reminds me of all the other format wars (VHS/Beta/Video 2000, DVD-R/+R, BlueRay/HD-DVD etc.)...

[K-Thom]

gerraldo - what do you exactly mean: Mobipocket eBooks or eBooks in prc format?

With "Mobipocket eBooks" I'm referring to those titles out of the eBookBase database from Mobipocket. And those are usually with DRM. beam sure does have hundreds of titles in prc format, just none with DRM anymore.

I'm one of the publishers selling prc without DRM on beam, and I could easily notice which files were missing - most of the major publishers, who all rely on DRM. And even though there may be quite some small print publishers distributing their titles in non-DRM prc, their decision won't have much of an impact on a larger scale.

[gerraldo]

Originally Posted by K-Thom

gerraldo - what do you exactly mean: Mobipocket eBooks or eBooks in prc format?

With "Mobipocket eBooks" I'm referring to those titles out of the eBookBase database from Mobipocket...

Originally Posted by K-Thom

And beam-ebooks.de just eliminated all DRM-eBooks which means their whole stock of Mobipocket prc.

Sorry, but from yout initial message I was under the impression you were referring to Mobipocket as a format, not as a company/website...

[igorsk]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So are many formats. PDF and DOC (Word) format to name but two. That doesn't prevent them from being practically useful, even if they are not officially documented. As long as the "owner" of the format provides reasonable tools for creating the files, that's all that really matters.

Bad examples PDF specification was public since (AFAIR) the first version.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdf_reference.html
And .DOC format was published last year.
http://www.microsoft.com/interop/doc...ryFormats.mspx

[Snuffi]

Originally Posted by gerraldo

Sorry, but from yout initial message I was under the impression you were referring to Mobipocket as a format, not as a company/website...

Yes, we were talking about the format in general. But with non-DRM .prc files it's not so much an issue as you can easily convert it into any other format you like. Maybe that's why K-Thom is making that distinction here...