N.Y. Times Article on Book Piracy

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by ClintBrauer

I don't disagree that things are moving too slow.

The main issue is that the investment should have started long ago. But just a few years ago I had to "persuade" some publishers that costs could be lowered if they each committed to a meaningful volume.

That should have never been the case. But just like much of the large companies out there...people make a living by reacting.

If Baen's model is working for them...then that's great. I'm not sure that any one model will be the "best" for a long time to come.

Clint has touched on something I was sort-of kind-of pointing at... since Baen is a publisher they're in a rather different position than a company that intends to be an eBook retailer (but not a publisher).

What I was trying to get at is this: Baen's model has been working for them (as a publisher) rather better than the approaches most other publishers have taken. Low prices (maybe even very low prices!), lots of formats, no DRM, and respect for the customers. They make it very clear that they don't take that approach out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather because...

...wait for it...

they MAKE MORE MONEY that way!

Baen's sales are up in all of paper, bits, and dollars -- even while the industry as a whole is shrinking. They're seeing their ebooks bring in a significant percentage of total sales (I estimate somewhere in the 15%-20% range based on statements from insiders, but I could be off by a bit) -- without having any problems with piracy. And that no-piracy-problem thing holds just as well for NYT best-sellers as for the mid-list and back-list authors. Meanwhile, my records show that my cost per unique eBook from Baen has been a bit under $3.50 per book after all discounts, bundles, etc. (and yes, I subtracted out all the books I got two of because they were included in two different bundles).

The message I was intending to aim at Clint is this:

Low prices, lots of formats, customer convenience, and no DRM is a winning combination in the eBook world.

But I also realize that Clint and CyberRead can't just wave a magic wand and make all the publishers CyberRead deals with buy-in to that message. CyberRead has to deal with the pricing choices made by publishers, even when the publishers cluelessly choose to charge more for bits than for paper.

On the other hand, Clint clearly has reasonable contacts in the publishing world (or so I presume based on his previous positions). So I was hoping he could poke some of the less-clueful publishers in a more positive direction.

Xenophon

P.S. @DaleDe -- No, I'm not claiming that Baen has done better than Amazon overall. Rather, I'm claiming that they've driven their eSales to a higher percentage of gross than any other "traditional publisher" I've heard of (and I've poked around through publicly available information quite a bit), while also increasing sales (and sell-through) at a time when the other guys are seeing decreases. And the choices they've made are much MUCH better for consumers than those made by most other publishers.

[Paradoxikon]

Just a few thought.

The book selling has been in decline for the last 10 years.

This is not due to ebooks.

In the last 10 years, there has been more reading on internet, more movies trough DVD, tape, etc. Also it seem that in certain area people are bicycling more or doing other sport. Parent involve their child in all kind of sport. Also people are listening at more music.
Books are also costing more and more.

Environmentalist would like us to use less paper and thus killing less trees.

The small bookstore are disapearing slowly. Should I blame Amazon for this ? or any of the other big one. Technology is slowly getting at them too.

Look, I would love to read 24/day but there is also a lot of other thing to do.
We have more choice than before and thus maybe people have more than one way to relax.

I could continue, but I think you get the point. We live in 2009, not 1999 and change is already here and will continue. The old way of restricting will only make it happen faster and hurting the business more (IMHO) We need to be imaginative to continue competing in this changing world.

Ebook will be bought mostly on website, therefore less paperbook to be sold, therefore less bookstore, therefore less printing (which is also in decline), and therefore less job. And this is not the fault of ebook, more of the technology that has been at work for 30 years or more.
Book will not disappear, it will surely change.

Because there is not a growth, does it means it is not viable ? May we need a more viable option of the book industry. May there is too much waste right now ?

I only have question like these, no answer.


No answer without question ?
Paradoxikon

[tomsem]

I think the impact of piracy on book sales is overblown. Eliminate it tomorrow and there would still be a publishing industry in decline. As time goes on, p-books get more expensive, on average people have less time and inclination and skills to read, and have a plethora of other activities to spend their time and money on. That trend can be slowed by enlightened application of technology and more consumer friendly pricing, but not reversed.

I have all but stopped purchasing p-books since acquiring a Kindle (I was noticing that only about 25% of my purchases were getting read, which seemed rather wasteful), and have yet to really ramp up on purchasing e-books. Part of the reason for purchase reluctance is I think they are overpriced, many books I'd like to purchase are not available in ebook form yet, and also for the foreseeable future, I have a backlog of free, out-of-copyright books that I always wanted to read (but never wanted to purchase) to work through (by which time maybe DRM will be dead or I'll want something other than a DRM laden Kindle).

It's a (weak) argument from personal incredulity, but I just can't see myself or other book lovers being satisfied or attracted to darknets offering only what is popular or needed for coursework. Textbook and technical publishers probably need to worry some about lost sales, but for the rest: drop the DRM and drop the price!

[moz]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I just can't see myself or other book lovers being satisfied or attracted to darknets offering only what is popular or needed for coursework.

You are kidding, right? The darknet has problems but lack of choice is not one of them. It's easy to download whole libraries worth of stuff. The problem is duplication, uneven quality and bad automated format conversions much more than it is lack of choice. The lack is in specific areas, and often those are areas well served by second hand deadwood.

What I do see a disturbing amount of is bad scan-to-pdf of textbooks. No quality control, often not even checking that all the pages are there, and huge files because it's just 500 pictures of pages. Which is fine if the alternative is a few hundred bucks for a book that will be worthless when the new edition comes out at the end of the year.

But yeah, BAEN and Fictionwise seem to be setting the standard in bought books. I know I spend very little elsewhere compared to the hundreds of dollars that go through my fictionwise account.

[brecklundin]

I wonder if it would be possible for one of the major players to quite literally buy all the Darknet technology and use it to create the Skype equivalent of a subscription based network for book sales.

I know that is a way out here idea and there is the whole creative commons thing, but, with the right amount of cash, anything can be bought in order to control it. Think of it as sort of Twitter for book/media downloading legally all based on some sort of subscription model. Different catalogs charged for access accordingly. That way the publishers do little to no work, and they still get paid. I know it's a silly idea but since they cannot beat them, then the old adage in business is to buy them out.

[weateallthepies]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

I wonder if it would be possible for one of the major players to quite literally buy all the Darknet technology and use it to create the Skype equivalent of a subscription based network for book sales.

I know that is a way out here idea and there is the whole creative commons thing, but, with the right amount of cash, anything can be bought in order to control it. Think of it as sort of Twitter for book/media downloading legally all based on some sort of subscription model. Different catalogs charged for access accordingly. That way the publishers do little to no work, and they still get paid. I know it's a silly idea but since they cannot beat them, then the old adage in business is to buy them out.

That'll be interesting, they can start with bittorrent, usenet and rapidshare and then go on to the other thousands of things people use.

A unified system for buying ebooks is a great idea though. Make it easy to use, make it reasonably priced, don't pollute it with horrible DRM and make it the biggest catalogue out there. Never gonna happen though.

[kad032000]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I just can't see myself or other book lovers being satisfied or attracted to darknets offering only what is popular or needed for coursework.

Originally Posted by brecklundin

I wonder if it would be possible for one of the major players to quite literally buy all the Darknet technology

Just FYI, "darknet" or even "the darknet" is just a subgroup of filesharing/piracy networks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet...sharing)#Terms

[kad032000]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

I wonder if it would be possible for one of the major players to quite literally buy all the Darknet technology

No.

Anyone with enough time/money/know-how can create a filesharing network.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kad032000

No.

Anyone with enough time/money/know-how can create a filesharing network.

Most of the programs used are open source so it seems to be very easy to start a network.

[kad032000]

Originally Posted by tompe

Most of the programs used are open source so it seems to be very easy to start a network.

Good point. Start-up is really easy.

(I had originally been thinking bandwidth issues, but that only applies to potential future growth, not the actual creation.)

[kamm]

Publishers and authors say they can learn from their peers in music, who alienated fans by using the courts aggressively to go after college students and Napster before it converted to a legitimate online store.

“If iTunes started three years earlier, I’m not sure how big Napster and the subsequent piratical environments would have been, because people would have been in the habit of legitimately purchasing at pricing that wasn’t considered pernicious,” said Richard Sarnoff, a chairman of Bertelsmann, which owns Random House, the world’s largest publisher of consumer titles.

Yeah because the illegal tactics RIAA/MPAA used and their corruptive legal actions fared so well, right?

Hilariously clueless, that is.

Full-time staffers to chase web copies, crawl through torrent trackers... what an utterly retarded idea, a total waste of money!
I wonder how the hell a group of idiots like these people are, can operate any business...

[Jaime_Astorga]

“I thought, who do these people think they are?” Ms. Le Guin said. “Why do they think they can violate my copyright and get away with it?”

When I read this, I was unable to resist the urge of yelling "because we can, b****!" at my monitor in a loud voice.

We have reached the technological point where, unless huge changes to infrastructure and political climate occur, trying to make widespread piracy impossible is simply an impractical idea. Companies can try to scare people with lawsuits, but they can't sue them all. With the technology being available, it is only of time before widespread public, which has started happening already. The best that companies can offer are services like iTunes which sell cheap, DRM-free books in order to attract people into their arms, instead of trying to steer them away from piracy. In either case, the people win; free copies of pretty much all books in existence or a cheap and good service of book buying. Isn't competition wonderful?

[Argel]

I live in the UK and, for a long time read only legal copies on my liseuse. However, geographical restrictions are now making that impossible. The last four books I have tried to buy legally are now limited to US-based cards only. Others, which are available in the UK have been priced at twice the price of paperback editions.

So I've given up. I've bought a Scansnap, a Stanley knife and a steel ruler, which is all I need to PDF the average paperback in around 10 minutes. That's one committed purchaser of legal ebooks that the publishers have managed to disillusion. How many others won't even bother to buy the paperback, I wonder?