What exactly are Standard Ebook's "advanced epubs"?

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That won't work for some Readers such as the old Sony Readers. They didn't have a way to justify the text other then in the CSS. And if the compatible ePub do get fixed to actually be compatible, then those that have a program or a Reader that doesn't allow switching justification, are stuck with left justified.

I don't think 'compatible' was ever meant to mean 'compatible with every reader ever made', but 'more compatible than the advanced version'. It is perfectly reasonable to produce a book that offers more choice on most readers at the expense of less choice on very old, unsupported hardware.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but more people do prefer full then left.

In the poll on MR about left or full justification, 19 people voted left, 21 voted full, and 5 voted don't care.

The only sensible decision to make on the basis of that poll would be to not hard-code any justification, but allow the reader to choose. Doing otherwise, as you wish to do, will force an unwanted choice on almost half the readers.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I don't think 'compatible' was ever meant to mean 'compatible with every reader ever made', but 'more compatible than the advanced version'. It is perfectly reasonable to produce a book that offers more choice on most readers at the expense of less choice on very old, unsupported hardware.

I fixed up one of their eBooks. It's not compatible with older software and ADE/RMSDK. There is no reason to make eBooks that don't work. Besides, if anyone needs an ePub 3 for accessibility, there is the advanced version that can be used. The "compatible" version is not compatible with Kobo, Sony, B&N, Pocketbook, and any other software/Reader that uses RMSDK. So why alienate so many people? Why waste your time and effort to make eBooks that don't work?

The only sensible decision to make on the basis of that poll would be to not hard-code any justification, but allow the reader to choose. Doing otherwise, as you wish to do, will force an unwanted choice on almost half the readers.

You are still forcing justification on the user. You would be forcing the default and some software does not allow the user to change the justification. So you really do have to pick one or the other and given that more people like full justification and Kobo does not hyphenate with left justification, the only logical choice is full justification.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You are still forcing justification on the user. You would be forcing the default and some software does not allow the user to change the justification. So you really do have to pick one or the other and given that more people like full justification and Kobo does not hyphenate with left justification, the only logical choice is full justification.

No.

You don't need to force a choice on all users because some use bad software.

Your option forces the wrong choice on almost half of all readers, from your own numbers.

Not forcing justification forces the wrong choice on readers who:
a) Have a reader that doesn't let them choose the justification, and
b) Want the opposite choice to their software's default

I suggest that those group of people are substantially less than half of all readers.

If I found a book that was designed in a way that prevented me from using the font/size/justification options that my software offers me, I would call that book defective.

Why waste your time and effort to make eBooks that don't work?

In my view, that is what you are doing if you are forcing display choices on the reader.

Different people have different ideas as to what makes something work or not.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

No.

You don't need to force a choice on all users because some use bad software.

Your option forces the wrong choice on almost half of all readers, from your own numbers.

Not forcing justification forces the wrong choice on readers who:
a) Have a reader that doesn't let them choose the justification, and
b) Want the opposite choice to their software's default

I suggest that those group of people are substantially less than half of all readers.

If I found a book that was designed in a way that prevented me from using the font/size/justification options that my software offers me, I would call that book defective.



In my view, that is what you are doing if you are forcing display choices on the reader.

Different people have different ideas as to what makes something work or not.

By not specifying justification, you are FORCING justification on those who's software does not have an option for justification. You are forcing whatever the default justification is for that software. So how is that any different then specifying full justification in CSS? All that needs to be done is specify full justification in body and you can then change the justification with the software's settings. I know this works with RMSDK on a Kobo. I know a lot of eBooks specify the justification in too many classes and that can prevent the justification setting from working. But it can be done so users without a setting get full justification and the rest can choose.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

By not specifying justification, you are FORCING justification on those who's software does not have an option for justification.

I call BS, complete and utter.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I call BS, complete and utter.

If you use ADE, you have no justification setting. So without justification specified in CSS, you are stuck with whatever the default justification is.

So prove to me that not specifying justification is best.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you use ADE, you have no justification setting. .

I don't use ADE.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

I don't use ADE.

While you may not, many do. So you have to take them into account.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you use ADE, you have no justification setting. So without justification specified in CSS, you are stuck with whatever the default justification is.

So prove to me that not specifying justification is best.

No, you prove that justification is best. And be honest, there is no way that you can. Except to say it is best for you. It is not best for me. And it is not best for my wife. Which is a much bigger argument for the choice than anything you can say.

But, basically, what you are say is that there are some ereaders/apps out there that do not have options to choose between justification and ragged-right. Personally, I would expect those to be older devices. And I would expect them to be bad at justifying the text with to many hyphenated words and/or spacing to big. This was definitely the case with the RMSDK based epubs on the Kobo Touch when I got it. I bet it was the case with all the other ereaders at the time. For ereaders/apps, not offering a justification option was likely a choice of the developers because they couldn't do it properly. And maybe they planned to add it later.

Of course, you are doing what you always do: Deciding on your preference and making a categorical statement that that is the only way things can be done. This one is more fun than usual as you are trying to claim that your way gives more choice. It doesn't.

[John F]

I wonder how many people actually read with ADE? I only use it for striping DRM for purchased books and transferring library books.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

While you may not, many do. So you have to take them into account.

Irrelevant, since you don't take anyone but you into account.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

All that needs to be done is specify full justification in body and you can then change the justification with the software's settings. I know this works with RMSDK on a Kobo.

Interesting claim, Jon. Sadly with RMSDK on a Kobo at this time, I set left justification in the body class of an epub. Transferred it to my Forma, and I could select left justified (AKA ragged right) or full justified and the page was reformatted appropriately. The same if I set full justification in the body class in the stylesheet, the justification selectors still worked. And the last test was to remove any text-align: left or text-align: justify lines from the body class. If you have left or justify in a non-body class, they will still apply, see cascading style sheet.

As for ADE? Yes, ADE 2.0.1 does not allow changing justification. Perhaps you could name a few of that overwhelming mass of people who use ADE to read their epubs? Most of the people I chat with use ADE to download DRMmed epubs so they can transfer them elsewhere for reading (calibre, ereaders, tablets, phones, etc.).

I will admit that I no longer require the programming types at work to check their work under Windows 7 never mind Windows XP. We also cut off earlier versions of Linux and MacOS so don't worry that we are discriminating against Microsoft OS.