DRM poll: How do you deal with it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

But people wouldn't be able to take content they'd bought FOR their Sony elsewhere - that was the point that I was making. The two DRM formats that Sony supports - their own LRX format and ePub with Adobe Digital Editions DRM - are both (currently) only supported on Sony Readers.

I'm thinking if Sony left the market, someone would figure out how to strip the DRM and create an easy way to convert ot some other format.

If you choose formats like LIT and Mobi, those can easily be converted to other reading platforms, but I'm certain that the overwhelming majority of Sony owners only buy their eBooks from "official" sources such as the Sony eBook store. We, in this forum, who are happy to do format conversions, don't represent the "typical" owner by any stretch of the imagination.

I have to agree. The average person would not be converting content and would be purchasing from Sony. However, if the reader died, the content could still be read on a computer. Maybe we can get FBReader to add LRF support.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

There's no guarantee that you'll still have a paperback, either. What proportion of the paperbacks that you bought 10 years ago do you still have today?

Life is full of uncertainties. When I buy a book, either on paper OR electronically, I certainly don't buy it with the view that it's a "lifetime investment".

That proportion would be very very close to 100%. I only get rid of books that I really didn't like and am thus highly unlikely to read again. (OK -- I also purge the shelves now and then to make room for new books. Likely casualties in this case are books I now own in bits. But I count that as "still have today.")

Xenophon

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DDHarriman

But if you buy the DVD of the movie – I’m not here into the theatre feeling on seeing movies etc, as I think is a personal option – you can see it all and all over again and not paying it again.

Think about going to the movies. It costs about $9 a ticket. Then the costs of popcorn/candy/drinks and if you go out, you sometimes go out to eat as well. Then there is the person you go with. so overall, you'd actually save money by waiting for the DVD and just buying that. Then you can see it as often as you want.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Most books see 80% of their sales in the first 3 months, and are removed from the shelves at the end of that period. So as Tompe said, it's best to buy it when you see it because you may not ever see it again.

That's actually an advantage to ebooks. A reseller doesn't really take up any space carrying back catalog... so Authors should be able to sell more back catalog since ebook stores will stock everything... and not just recently released books which they return after a few months to make room for new ones.

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

There's no guarantee that you'll still have a paperback, either. What proportion of the paperbacks that you bought 10 years ago do you still have today?

Nearly all of them. I think I have lost 1 or 2 books of a couple of thousands books.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by tompe

Nearly all of them. I think I have lost 1 or 2 books of a couple of thousands books.

Not me... I lost about 300 to a flooded basement. Also... lost some to mold. Others have walked away.

BOb

[Dave Berk]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Others have walked away.

I know those books. They always end up at my neighbours.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by Dave Berk

I know those books. They always end up at my neighbours.

I actually think they are hanging out with my divorced socks. You know, they socks that don't want to live as a couple any more.

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Not me... I lost about 300 to a flooded basement. Also... lost some to mold. Others have walked away.

I have some books that I have lent out that maybe are lost but this is nearly always books I already have read. And in the same way as I choose to not buy DRM:ed books I choose not to keep books were they can be flooded. Most people will be aware of the flooding risks but they will not be aware of the risks associated with DRM.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by tompe

I have some books that I have lent out that maybe are lost but this is nearly always books I already have read. And in the same way as I choose to not buy DRM:ed books I choose not to keep books were they can be flooded. Most people will be aware of the flooding risks but they will not be aware of the risks associated with DRM.

What... are you saying I put my books in harms way? This basement had always been dry as a bone. But... apparently some construction had clogged a drainage culvert which is what caused the problem.

Once again, stuff happens. Hard drives crash, ebook stores close, companies make decisions, basements flood, fires start.... they bottom line is, there is nothing you can do about these things some times. You do your best but somethings are just out of our control.

BOb

[tompe]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

What... are you saying I put my books in harms way? This basement had always been dry as a bone. But... apparently some construction had clogged a drainage culvert which is what caused the problem.

Once again, stuff happens. Hard drives crash, ebook stores close, companies make decisions, basements flood, fires start.... they bottom line is, there is nothing you can do about these things some times. You do your best but somethings are just out of our control.

I have always associated basements with places were you store things that you are more willing to loose. It is well know that flooding can occur in basements but it happens much more seldom above ground.

The point is that for flooding, fire and so on you have control over the risk. With DRM your control is much less.

[bill_mchale]

Hey, I want to thank everyone who has participated in the Poll so far. It has been, I think, very enlightening. Obviously more people could vote in it, but I find it interesting that over 50% of voters strip DRM off the books they buy. And over all, 2/3rds of all respondents basically buy books and end up with DRM free books in the end (i.e. they strip the DRM or they avoid buying DRM'd books in the first place).

Now I imagine our group is probably not representative of all e book readers... but it does show, I think that DRM really doesn't do much for publishers. It hurts their sales because of those who will not buy DRM and at the same time, a significant fraction of buyers is just going to strip DRM anyway.

Still, maybe there will be more votes that will change the basic conclusion, but overall I expect these numbers to remain more or less consistent.

--
Bill

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Now I imagine our group is probably not representative of all e book readers... but it does show, I think that DRM really doesn't do much for publishers. It hurts their sales because of those who will not buy DRM and at the same time, a significant fraction of buyers is just going to strip DRM anyway.

As you (and others) have pointed out, these results only apply to us, the generally more savvy of e-book readers... and we (unfortunately) are in the minority. I doubt those of us who buy, or even those who strip DRM from books, can be considered a "significant" number, against overall sales.

Most readers do not strip DRM, nor do they use the darknet to track down pirated books, so publishers know what the bulk of their market is doing. Most readers simply do not think about the consequences of an e-bookseller going belly-up and locking them out of their books in the future. (And if it happens, it angers them possibly more than it does us.) And the publishers and general consumers simply aren't looking much further forward than that.

DRM may hurt publishers as far as their selling to us, but as to the rest of the e-book reading world, I'm sure DRM isn't impacting them greatly, and it does serve to mitigate loss through sharing to some extent, so I doubt the addition of DRM really "hurts" publishers overall. As far as impact, DRM mainly just serves to insult more tech-savvy users, while the insult goes over the head of everyone else.

[bill_mchale]

Steve,
I am not sure I entirely agree with us being such a small minority as to be insignificant. At this point (well before Oprah talked about the Kindle on National TV) I think it was safe to say that that majority of eBook readers are early adopters of technology and many of them by nature are tech savvy.

Now I will grant because the age demographics of readers tends to skew higher than the age demographics of music and video watchers, they will be less likely to go onto darknet than the purveyors of other media, but I am not sure I would write it off as a source of lost revenue.

In any case, I think over time, if draconian DRM remains the norm, I think it will force more and more users to start circumventing it in some fashion or the other.

--
Bill

[bbusybookworm]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

As you (and others) have pointed out, these results only apply to us, the generally more savvy of e-book readers... and we (unfortunately) are in the minority. I doubt those of us who buy, or even those who strip DRM from books, can be considered a "significant" number, against overall sales.

That may be true, if you look at just the numbers, but if you look at the influence those numbers change.

Most of the People here are quiet Tech Savy and as such often have role to play in shaping other peoples decisions may they be friends, family, etc.
As such While Being a minority, their opinion does matter, especially in a budding industry like this. If it were an established industry, a small percentage of vocal complainers may not have as much of an impact, but when eBooks and Readers are so new in the popular conciousness it doesn't seem prudent to ignore your most dedicated consumers.

After all most of the books sold worldwide are bough by a minority of readers. Most of us here are in that minority.

In My own case, I'm often the go to guy for tech and gadgets for my friends and family. As such While I may only be one person, my suggestions may affect a dozen peoples decisions. I've been recommending the Gen 3 Currently mainly because of the Variety of content available for it as well as the Font Support. This Does directly correlate into more sales for that device, not just because of the recommendation, but because they know that if they need help, with the device or with formatting content for it they'll get it from me.