Author edits best selling book due to 3 complaints from 150,000 sales

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Azayzel

I guess the one thing we also missed about the article was the last line:

"Wilson is one of the 750 authors to have put her name to a petition against age guidance, a publisher initiative to include the ages at which a children's book is aimed on its back cover."

Hmm, we have rating systems for movies, TV shows, video games, and music; I don't think there's any reason not to have one for books. After all, it's simply a warning of what's in the medium and not necessarily infringement upon freedom of speech. Ultimately, it's up to the parent to screen what their children reads/hears/watches and having something to base that decision on cannot hurt.

The complaint from authors is that such rating systems may ultimately harm their sales, because a book will get put into a specific age range when in fact it may have far broader appeal, but simply won't be bought for kids outside of the age range by parents who use such labeling as a crutch to relieve them of actually having to know something about the book.
______
Dennis

[slayda]

Definition of Magic.

My miracles are miracles. Your miracles are just magic.

[RickyMaveety]

I don't believe in either miracles or magic ... but some belief systems just don't lend themselves to that sort of thing.

As for swearing ... I had a long discussion with my mother on the topic when I was young. She was rather upset that her youngest daughter (me) had developed a mouth like a trucker (not her fault, I caught it working with the hired hands on the ranch).

My thought on the matter was ... and still is ... that it's not the words that are "bad," it's the intent behind the words. If I mash my thumb in a car door a few swear words are entirely appropriate, and since they aren't directed at anyone, I don't feel that they are "bad" in and of themselves.

About the strongest word I ever throw at someone to insult them is by calling them an idiot ... but swearing ... love it ... great stress reliever.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

I don't believe in either miracles or magic ... but some belief systems just don't lend themselves to that sort of thing.

As for swearing ... I had a long discussion with my mother on the topic when I was young. She was rather upset that her youngest daughter (me) had developed a mouth like a trucker (not her fault, I caught it working with the hired hands on the ranch).

My thought on the matter was ... and still is ... that it's not the words that are "bad," it's the intent behind the words. If I mash my thumb in a car door a few swear words are entirely appropriate, and since they aren't directed at anyone, I don't feel that they are "bad" in and of themselves.

About the strongest word I ever throw at someone to insult them is by calling them an idiot ... but swearing ... love it ... great stress reliever.

Yeah, when you mash your thumb, as in missing the nail and hitting your thumb, you need a nice long swearing phrase (mine is son-of-a-bitch) to get the emotion out. Short four letter words have to be repeated several times to be effective.

I obviously led a very shelter life when I was younger. I was 32 when at a "public" park they were having a dog show. Over the loud speaker they announced, "The showing of the bitches will be at two o'clock." I actually cringed, but it got me thinking. That was a perfectly legitimate use of the word. I decided there are no inappropriate words, just inappropriate circumstances and uses of words. Young people need to learn this. I wish I had learned it much earlier in life.

[nekokami]

I've never been one for swearing. (I will occasionally say "damn" or "damned," or, very rarely, "piss.") I sort of have to verbally put quotes around swear words if I want to use them them in conversation, e.g. to repeat what someone else has said.

This has not, of course, stopped my kids from learning the words, but they don't have a leg to stand on for using them around the house. (Actually, we had to explain to our older daughter, who came here from China at age 11 speaking no English, what the words she was repeating in a garbled way meant, as well as how to pronounce them correctly, so that she wouldn't use them accidentally. Ah, the wonders of public school transportation....)

It's a matter of politeness and context, I think. As with all language, one needs to be aware of the "customs of the tribe" when one chooses to use swear words, and take into account how others will react. In some contexts, the words are not rude-- they are part of fitting in. In other contexts, the words are quite rude, and to use them is to deliberately offer provocation. (Which I think most teenagers understand quite well-- but I'm less sure about 10-year-olds.)

[TallMomof2]

I let my kids read whatever they want. I just them to read! So far they haven't read anything out of the ordinary.

One other religious oddity. Another family that lives in the neighborhood will not let their kids watch most cartoons especially Spongebob Squarepants. Their rationale is that since sponges can't really talk it must be magic which is the work of the devil. I've actually heard this firsthand. A lot of fundamentalist types live around here.

My kids watch Spongebob and so do I.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

One other religious oddity. Another family that lives in the neighborhood will not let their kids watch most cartoons especially Spongebob Squarepants. Their rationale is that since sponges can't really talk it must be magic which is the work of the devil. I've actually heard this firsthand. A lot of fundamentalist types live around here.

How do they feel about Disney cartoons? After all, mice and ducks can't talk...

My kids watch Spongebob and so do I.

For reasons that elude me, Spongebob seems to have been taken up by the gay male community, and things like Spongebob keyrings are popular accessories. One can only imagine what your fundamentalist neighbors would think about that.

I watch Spongebob once in a while. My main reaction is that someone on the writing staff has done time in fast food joints. Spongebob's employer is "drawn from the life".
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Dennis

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by slayda

Yeah, when you mash your thumb, as in missing the nail and hitting your thumb, you need a nice long swearing phrase (mine is son-of-a-bitch) to get the emotion out. Short four letter words have to be repeated several times to be effective.

I obviously led a very shelter life when I was younger. I was 32 when at a "public" park they were having a dog show. Over the loud speaker they announced, "The showing of the bitches will be at two o'clock." I actually cringed, but it got me thinking. That was a perfectly legitimate use of the word. I decided there are no inappropriate words, just inappropriate circumstances and uses of words. Young people need to learn this. I wish I had learned it much earlier in life.

That's pretty much the view I developed at a very young age. No word is necessarily off limits ... it's just a word after all. It's the intent behind the word ... if my intent was to shock the grownups, well, then that was just being rude. If my intent was to hurt someone, then that was just plain wrong. If a bitch means a female dog and I'm referring to a female dog, then what's the big deal???

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

How do they feel about Disney cartoons? After all, mice and ducks can't talk...

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Dennis

Can't help but wonder how they would feel about those "Veggie Tales" cartoons that supposedly use talking vegetables to preach Christian values. The last time I checked, vegetables were pretty much all nonverbal.

[nekokami]

I have to be in the right sort of mood for Spongebob, but then, I generally don't like watching TV. But I'd say Spongebob is pretty subversive in much more subtle ways than being a talking sponge. Which is why I'll occasionally watch it if someone else has it turned on.

Seriously, Dennis, is there anyone in the US -- certainly in Hollywood-- who hasn't done time in a fast food joint???

And on that note, have you ever played the game Give Me the Brain, by Cheapass Games?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by nekokami

I have to be in the right sort of mood for Spongebob, but then, I generally don't like watching TV. But I'd say Spongebob is pretty subversive in much more subtle ways than being a talking sponge. Which is why I'll occasionally watch it if someone else has it turned on.

Seriously, Dennis, is there anyone in the US -- certainly in Hollywood-- who hasn't done time in a fast food joint???

Well, I haven't. But then, fast food joints weren't the usual first employers when I was old enough to get a first job. (I was a movie usher.)

And on that note, have you ever played the game Give Me the Brain, by Cheapass Games?

No.
______
Dennis

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

If a bitch means a female dog and I'm referring to a female dog, then what's the big deal???

That, I find I must agree with. There's a character in Garth Nix's Lirael who, when she appears, introduces herself as "I'm the Disreputable Dog. Actually, the Disreputable Bitch, to be more exact. When are we going for a walk?" It never even occurred to me that this should have been censored given the marketing category of the book. Because... the character is a female dog. (And I'm sure the folks who don't let their kids watch Spongebob wouldn't like this book anyway, for more reasons than that, even though I consider it quite a good-- and original-- examination of good vs. evil.)

I also have a book titled Getting in Touch with your Inner Bitch by Elizabeth Hilts (illustrations by Nicole Hollander) that I quite like. One of those "reclaim your word" kind of things.

[RickyMaveety]

Long time ago (in this galaxy), I did a sort of "demo" for my mom on how silly it can be to get caught up in any word. I proceeded to say the word "f**k" probably about thirty times, but very quickly I did it as if I was a chicken. So, imagine a thirteen year old girl, "clucking" like a chicken, but instead of saying "cluck", I said "f**k". I am censoring the word in this case because to post it probably is against the rules here, otherwise I probably wouldn't.

Anyway ... my mom started laughing so hard, which meant (to me) that she got the point. She still would have rather I conducted myself like a "lady" ... but she stopped giving me "the look" every time I let one slip.

My first job wasn't in fast food ... it was actually as a stable "boy". However, I did eventually put time in at Baskin Robbins. It was the one in Westwood, California ... back in 1971 or so. I can proudly say that I have served ice cream to many of Hollywood's most famous (at least famous back then ...).

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

How do they feel about Disney cartoons? After all, mice and ducks can't talk...

I always thought that made it fantasy and therefore not so good. Also totally unrealistic. I preferred science fiction.

[TallMomof2]

What I like in particular about Spongebob is the music.

Re the families who won't let their kids read HP or watch Spongebob...

They love Disney and its products.

[bmwvan]

If I may, we are far adrift from the question of an author changing their work to suit the sellers of that product. On one hand, that is a form of censorship, but the author accepts that censorship because it is the price of being published. If the public does not want the product as written and changes can fix that, that's supply and demand. The question of why the public wants the changes made may include religion and politics. IMHO, those topics are better left to the individual. After all, more wars have been fought over belief systems than any other topic. I say that after more than 20 years study of anthropology and history. You can probably guess that religion and politics are not dinner table topics at my house! I'll stick with books, travel, sports, the weather, you know, safe stuff.

Harry is right to not want young people exposed to language he deems inappropriate, but those of you that have expressed an alternate viewpoint are equally right. I grew up reading all the books my parents read and they taught me that language is to be used correctly in context. They trusted me to avoid cussing like a salior in school, and I didn't. I still like to string 10 or 20 really vile cusswords together when I'm trying to get a program to work correctly and it just won't. Like Python and my never-ending attempte to dedrm book files. THAT'S worth curse words, don't you think? Damnit!