Ursula K. Le Guin: “I keep Asking You Not to Buy Books from Amazon”

[Greg Anos]

Ah yes..LeGuin Redux...

Another old academic literati pitching a hissy because nobody is paying any attention to them any more...

(and lest you think I'm just talking out of hat - here's Wkipedia...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_..._and_education

"Childhood and education

Ursula and her three older brothers, Karl, Theodore, and Clifford, were encouraged to read and were exposed to their parents' dynamic friend group.[5] In retrospect, she is grateful for the ease and happiness of her upbringing.[5] The encouraging environment fostered Le Guin's interest in literature; her first fantasy story was written at age 9, her first science fiction story submitted for publication in the magazine Astounding Science Fiction at age 11.[5] The family spent the academic year in Berkeley, retreating to a Napa Valley estate in the summers. She was interested in biology and poetry, but found math difficult.[6] Le Guin attended Berkeley High School. She received her B.A. (Phi Beta Kappa) in Renaissance French and Italian literature from Radcliffe College in 1951, and M.A. in French and Italian literature from Columbia University in 1952. Soon after, Le Guin began her Ph.D. work and won a Fulbright grant to continue her studies in France from 1953-54.[5]
Marriage and family

In 1953, while traveling to France, Le Guin met her future husband, historian Charles Le Guin (French pronunciation: ​[lǝ gɛ̃] or [lǝ ɡʷin][7]). They married later that year in Paris. After marrying, Le Guin chose not to continue her doctoral studies of the poet Jean Lemaire de Belges.[6]

The couple returned to the US so that he could pursue his Ph.D. at Emory University.[8] During this time, she worked as a secretary and taught French at the university level. Their first two children, Elizabeth (1957) and Caroline (1959), were born in Idaho, where Charles taught. Later, in 1959, the Le Guins moved to Portland, Oregon, where they still reside. Charles is Professor Emeritus of History at Portland State University.[5][9] During this time, she continued to make time for writing in addition to maintaining her family life. In 1964, her third child, Theodore, was born.[5]"

I doubt if she ever spent as much as a year in a slum, or was involved in small business, or studied the military, or...

Just another academic literati whining because the world really doesn't care about the products of the "ivory tower" and prefer to read something by a nobody who's been around in the world, in it's good and bad, and can write about it...

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Amazon provides me with lots of choices. My local bookstore provides me with lots of choices. And guess what? *I* get to make the choices.

Literature is not about readers having choices. It's about accepting what you're told is literature--by people whose tastes are more refined than yours.

[Turtle91]

So, I have two pictures on my wall. 1) the Mona Lisa (original, of course...) and 2) my sons first crayon drawing at 13 months.


Which one do I ENJOY more?? Which one is considered "real art" ??

Too many people here are arguing that they are offended that "the elitists" are telling them that their son's crayon drawing isn't real art.... Hate to break it to you folks....it's not...not in the same manner as is defined when you say "literature"...

Who cares what Ms LeGuin's personal history is? Or that she may, or may not, have had a poor day in her life?? Ridiculous...

Read her article.... She is complaining about how the current BS system is meaningless (or not) in determining if a book is "good". She never says you aren't allowed to enjoy your books. She never says your books are bad... I would think there are too many other things in life that you can be offended about instead of trying to force her article into the shape of an attack on you.


Cheers,

[fjtorres]

She isn't blaming the system.
She is blaming Amazon and its customers. Very precisely and very specifically.
Just as last year she was precisely and specifically accusing Amazon of "disappearing authors" which has a very specific meaning for those familiar with military dictatorships.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by tompe

Did people read the article at all? Of course the consequence of getting people used to mediocre books will be that it will be harder to find (if they exist at all) very good books. And she is not talking about literary books.

To me is seems that people in this thread has gotten used to books that are not particular good and now need to protect themselves from realizing that or need to rationalize their behavior. So we are in this thread seeing one of the negative consequences she is fearing.

I believe that both you and Ursula are arguing from personal prejudged conclusions rather than facts.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

{...} it's probably a combination of the tax laws (which changed in the 80s to consider unsold books taxable inventory) and pressure on the publishers {...}

The Tax Laws didn't change and inventory isn't taxed - it's all a Urban Fairy Story.

If you are referencing a version of Thor Power Tool, that eliminated a tax dodge.

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

She isn't blaming the system.
She is blaming Amazon and its customers. Very precisely and very specifically.
Just as last year she was precisely and specifically accusing Amazon of "disappearing authors" which has a very specific meaning for those familiar with military dictatorships.

Her first paragraph...I'm not an english major or anything close, but isn't that the thesis of her article?? (Emphasis added)

Amazon and I are not at war. There are vast areas in which my peaceful indifference to what Amazon is and does can only be surpassed by Amazon’s presumably equally placid indifference to what I say and do. If you like to buy household goods or whatever through Amazon, that’s totally fine with me. If you think Amazon is a great place to self-publish your book, I may have a question or two in mind, but still, it’s fine with me, and none of my business anyhow. My only quarrel with Amazon is when it comes to how they market books and how they use their success in marketing to control not only bookselling, but book publication: what we write and what we read.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Read her article.... She is complaining about how the current BS system is meaningless (or not) in determining if a book is "good". She never says you aren't allowed to enjoy your books. She never says your books are bad... I would think there are too many other things in life that you can be offended about instead of trying to force her article into the shape of an attack on you.

Bah! The problem that I and other folks are having is that Ms. Le Guin is blaming Amazon for the bestseller system, which they aren't. Ms. Le Guin's publisher is the one pushing bestsellers. Ms. Le Guin is blaming Amazon for the state of modern "Literature". They are not (if anything her publisher is more to blame for pushing the bestseller system). Ms. Le Guin has been beating this drum since the Hachette/Amazon debacle and she just can't wrap her mind around the fact that times are changing and like her publisher is really not prepared to move onto the new reality. The old gatekeepers are dead. Long live the new gatekeepers (or the lack thereof).

And finally. Ms. Le Guin, please stop telling me where to spend my money. I'm an adult with 50+ years of reading under my belt and I don't need you to tell me what's good for me. ... Thank you.

Edit:

Amazon is when it comes to how they market books and how they use their success in marketing to control not only bookselling, but book publication: what we write and what we read.

When Ms. Le Guin and or her publisher have *proof* that Amazon is controlling what the authors write and what we read, I'd guess the U.S Justice Department would be glad to talk to them. In the meantime it's just blowing smoke.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

And so who gets to define what is good? The publishers? Because you know they haven't got a good track record either.

I'm kind of tired of self-important people telling me that what I like to read is below me and if I'd just listen to them, my life would be so much better.

Amazon provides me with lots of choices. My local bookstore provides me with lots of choices. And guess what? *I* get to make the choices.

More rationalizing...

[Turtle91]

It's kinda like beating your head against a wall....if people really want to be offended, they will be...it doesn't matter what another person is ACTUALLY saying, people will just feel like they need to be defensive.

Have fun with that paranoia...I'm going to go live my un-offended life now.

Cheers!

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

Have fun with that paranoia...I'm going to go live my un-offended life now.

Is that the life where you kinda sorta agree with her--making those who don't--seem paranoid and offended by comparison?

[Turtle91]

no...I said she had kind of a point when reading those two clipped paragraphs out of her much larger article which made it sound possibly offensive to some. After reading the whole article I can see that her article isn't about what the OP suggested. And it certainly isn't about what some of those who posted here are claiming...but they certainly have the right, paranoid or otherwise, to feel offended regardless of what someone actually says. I'm just not one to put my own ideas into someone elses mouth and then become offended at it...too much drama.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Turtle91

So, I have two pictures on my wall. 1) the Mona Lisa (original, of course...) and 2) my sons first crayon drawing at 13 months.


Which one do I ENJOY more?? Which one is considered "real art" ??

Too many people here are arguing that they are offended that "the elitists" are telling them that their son's crayon drawing isn't real art.... Hate to break it to you folks....it's not...not in the same manner as is defined when you say "literature"...

Who cares what Ms LeGuin's personal history is? Or that she may, or may not, have had a poor day in her life?? Ridiculous...

Read her article.... She is complaining about how the current BS system is meaningless (or not) in determining if a book is "good". She never says you aren't allowed to enjoy your books. She never says your books are bad... I would think there are too many other things in life that you can be offended about instead of trying to force her article into the shape of an attack on you.


Cheers,

What is "real art"? Who decides? What is the judgement based on? What makes that basis valid?

Those are hard and real questions. (Personally, I rate Jackson Pollack below the childhood drawing that inspired Lennon's Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds, but that is my personal taste.)

One genre writer stated that his goal was "to write about the human heart in conflict with itself". That writer made more money and got more awards that Ms. LeGuin in his lifetime career.

Ms. LeGuin is handicapped as a writer by a lack of experience in <all> aspects of the human condition. I say that, having read a large amount of her output. It is limited in worldview, and limited in understanding the great mess of conflicting realities that make up being human. I don't value how fancy the words are used or how pretty they're strung together, if that means you are not describing humans are they are.

Frankly, James Branch Cabell, has her beat hollow, as literature, but he never publicly woofed about how his later work didn't sell...

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That values raunchy softcore "mommy porn" over metaphorical musings of 60's sexual politics.

What the hell is "mommy porn" and does amazon sell it?

[Rizla]

But, but...Amazon is perfect