No magic in the Kindle: Three reasons

[igorsk]

"His ilk", eh?
Please feel free to add people to ignore list but do try to refrain from name-calling.

[HarryT]

"Ilk" is not an offensive work. It just means "people like him".

[zelda_pinwheel]

hm, i thought he was being ironic. (it was really funny, if it was ironic).

seriously, we need the :irony mark: smiley.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by igorsk

"His ilk", eh?
Please feel free to add people to ignore list but do try to refrain from name-calling.

You think the word "ilk" is an insult?? Just curious ... in what language?? Or, were you being ironic? In which case ..... WE NEED AN IRONIC SMILEY!!!

[Aaida]

hehe ...Couldn't resist the classics after reading thru the thread! :þ

*serious face on now* ilk by definition is not an insult, nor is it "name calling" but dear lord... but you can hardly blame the lad "and his ilk" for feeling defamed by the (barely... tantalizingly... offensive tone.

[ NB: I can't weigh in on this debate as i merely surfed by today because I'm]
[ going to purchase an e-reader... in fact, I'm about 2.5 seconds away from ]
[ posting a lame "what should I buy???!" thread in the parent forum ]
[ (so keep your eyes peeled, opinionartists... i'm sure it'll be just scintilating ]
[ enough to avoid severe dissapointment!* hehe) ]

Art and design preference being entirely arbitrary in all forms it's a bit of a tall order to accuse anyone of touting their personal judgements as concrete fact.

I'm an digital artist that spends hours in front of my computer, and I'm in Australia... For me design/looks are more important than roaming internet access *shrugs* (Wireless/bluetooth on the other hand!)

IQ and chromosomal differences aside, the cases just seem to be:
- I love the Kindle and it looks awesome (or who gives a damn what it looks like, that's not the point?)
- I love the Kindle's functionality but wish its aesthetics were up to scratch
- Another e-reader has more useful functions for me and looks like tech-candy heaven


In any case, loved the original article (oh my god, draconian is the new black... i never knew) -and- the 'comparing girlfriends vs. the proliferation of human ignorance' reply. Seriously, that was gold sadly poignant :/

"comparing penises" is a metaphorical (...or subliminal?) rather than a supposed/actual social custom. The assumption is that that point-per-inch comparisons are strictly a personal indulgence. (Umm, hopefully!)

Comparing girlfriends is actually still a socially acceptible extension of this, tho ( In the primitive mind: I am more manly and more genetically viable because I am physically better, so I get the girls... so logically if I get the more physically attractive girls I am obviously more manly and genetically viable and I have better status in the clan )

The shallow masses needn't fear though. The human race would be extinct already if we *only* bred for brains - a species needs physical health... and mental health *lol*
...A proportionally higher amount of abnoxiously intelligent people have borderline mental illnesses, or people in their family with mental illnesses :þ

---Aaida

*results not typical!

[Aaida]

And HELL YES we need an ironic smiley!! lol

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by Aaida

hehe ...Couldn't resist the classics after reading thru the thread! :þ

*serious face on now* ilk by definition is not an insult, nor is it "name calling" but dear lord... but you can hardly blame the lad "and his ilk" for feeling defamed by the (barely... tantalizingly... offensive tone.

[ NB: I can't weigh in on this debate as i merely surfed by today because I'm]
[ going to purchase an e-reader... in fact, I'm about 2.5 seconds away from ]
[ posting a lame "what should I buy???!" thread in the parent forum ]
[ (so keep your eyes peeled, opinionartists... i'm sure it'll be just scintilating ]
[ enough to avoid severe dissapointment!* hehe) ]

Art and design preference being entirely arbitrary in all forms it's a bit of a tall order to accuse anyone of touting their personal judgements as concrete fact.

I have no problem with people stating opinions, especially not if they have anything to actually back up those opinions. For example, if rather than just saying "The Kindle is ugly," (which is a statement I do not see framed as opinion), the person stated that he did not like its looks because (1) it's white, and (2) it has a keyboard, and then followed that with an explanation that he/she hates all electronics that are white and/or that have keyboards, while I would still disagree with their opinion, I could at least understand it, and understand it as opinion. That sort of post for which I could at least garner a small amount of respect.

Originally Posted by Aaida

I'm an digital artist that spends hours in front of my computer, and I'm in Australia... For me design/looks are more important than roaming internet access *shrugs* (Wireless/bluetooth on the other hand!)!

I also spend hours in front of my computer working on digital art. Design and looks are extremely important to me. However, they are entirely subjective, or should be. I happen to think the Kindle looks just fine. It certainly works well for me, so I have no quibbles with the design either. The fact that it has roaming access is just icing on the cake.

Originally Posted by Aaida

IQ and chromosomal differences aside, the cases just seem to be:
- I love the Kindle and it looks awesome (or who gives a damn what it looks like, that's not the point?)
- I love the Kindle's functionality but wish its aesthetics were up to scratch
- Another e-reader has more useful functions for me and looks like tech-candy heaven

Now, where you and I differ is in your second statement with the words "up to scratch." Had you simply used the word "different" ... I would agree with you. I don't happen to feel that you, or anyone else, is in a position to determine what is or is not "up to scratch." Digital artist or not.

Originally Posted by Aaida

In any case, loved the original article (oh my god, draconian is the new black... i never knew) -and- the 'comparing girlfriends vs. the proliferation of human ignorance' reply. Seriously, that was gold sadly poignant :/

"comparing penises" is a metaphorical (...or subliminal?) rather than a supposed/actual social custom. The assumption is that that point-per-inch comparisons are strictly a personal indulgence. (Umm, hopefully!)

Comparing girlfriends is actually still a socially acceptible extension of this, tho ( In the primitive mind: I am more manly and more genetically viable because I am physically better, so I get the girls... so logically if I get the more physically attractive girls I am obviously more manly and genetically viable and I have better status in the clan )

And, the sad thing is that it appears society has never evolved past that point.

Originally Posted by Aaida

The shallow masses needn't fear though. The human race would be extinct already if we *only* bred for brains - a species needs physical health... and mental health *lol*
...A proportionally higher amount of abnoxiously intelligent people have borderline mental illnesses, or people in their family with mental illnesses :þ

A species does indeed need physical health. However, things that one could argue used to signal genetic health, are now subject to surgical intervention. So, the health of the species as a whole is no longer linked to the male or female attraction to superficial looks.

I don't recognize the word "abnoxiously" ... however, I would dispute your statistics. A very high (extremely high) proportion of those with low intelligence have actual (not borderline) mental illness. Further, even average intelligence does not protect one from mental illness.

Both intelligence and mental illness follow (more or less) the same statistical "bell curve" in any given population. The reasons for a higher incidence in individuals with low intelligence can be from (1) brain injury causing both, (2) mistreatment due to low intelligence causing mental illness, and (3) chemical imbalances causing both.

But, then perhaps the medical school where you learned graphic arts taught from a different set of text books.

and right back at ya!!

[pshrynk]

Abnoxious should be a word. in fact, I'm going to enter it on the Mozzled word thread.

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Abnoxious should be a word. in fact, I'm going to enter it on the Mozzled word thread.

Why is it that I always get an idea for something only to find that you got the idea a bit beforehand?? Hmmmmm???

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Why is it that I always get an idea for something only to find that you got the idea a bit beforehand?? Hmmmmm???

What can I say? I'm abnoxious!

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

What can I say? I'm abnoxious!

Well, hey ... you and me both, brother. That's why I like you.

[Aaida]

Lol. Probably just stoking the fire here, but here goes

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

I have no problem with people stating opinions, especially not if they have anything to actually back up those opinions. For example, if rather than just saying "The Kindle is ugly," (which is a statement I do not see framed as opinion), the person stated that he did not like its looks because (1) it's white, and (2) it has a keyboard, and then followed that with an explanation that he/she hates all electronics that are white and/or that have keyboards, while I would still disagree with their opinion, I could at least understand it, and understand it as opinion. That sort of post for which I could at least garner a small amount of respect.

Come on... people have crap opinions all the time! ...just because you think the reasons for having said crap opinions are stupid, lame or totally unfounded doesn't mean they stop being opinions.

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Now, where you and I differ is in your second statement with the words "up to scratch." Had you simply used the word "different" ... I would agree with you. I don't happen to feel that you, or anyone else, is in a position to determine what is or is not "up to scratch." Digital artist or not.

I noticed you replied to my post in the other thread after you wrote this reply, so you probably realized after you posted this that I don't actually own one (yet) ...I'm still shopping
But just in case - That paragraph was commenting that those seem to be the general opinions in this thread by other posters.

Personally, the Kindle doesn't look bad to me!

I don't think that there is a problem with anyone having a particular opinion on a product tho, whether i think it's bulls**t or not.... I do think that there's a problem with people telling anyone they're not allowed to determine what they like and express it... I didn't mention my job to get bonus points for my opinion (i don't have one yet, anyway! *grin*) but to say that I'm someone who values how my things look highly... not everyone does - some people just want something that does a really good job and couldn't give a rat's what it looks like *shrugs*

Lol. Before I get labeled a superficial trend-follower: I couldn't give a rat's what other people think looks cool or crap, and it doesn't matter whether other people agree with my choices either *grin* I'm not interested in purchasing social icons (ie the 'iPod' type of tech-hype etc)

...I'll probably create a custom skin for it anyway - think i saw www.mytego.com posted in one of the other threads, they didn't look too bad!

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

A species does indeed need physical health. However, things that one could argue used to signal genetic health, are now subject to surgical intervention. So, the health of the species as a whole is no longer linked to the male or female attraction to superficial looks.

(Don't mind me I'm not arguing, promise! ...just going off on a tangent, it's an interesting line of thought) The two could merge once again in the future perhaps... when cosmetic surgery graduates to cosmetic genetic engineering, assuming that people rich enough to tamper with their/their children's genes for looks would also do it for health reasons /drifting

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

I don't recognize the word "abnoxiously"

Bugger, sleep deprivation.. I must confess I posted at some disgusting hour of the morning
...does sound like it would be a fun one tho, doesn't it

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

however, I would dispute your statistics. A very high (extremely high) proportion of those with low intelligence have actual (not borderline) mental illness. Further, even average intelligence does not protect one from mental illness.

Oi! I didn't quote statistics, and I didn't say that people of normal or sub-normal intelligence cannot have a mental illness. Neither was I implying that intelligent people often have borderline disorders only - I included acute and borderline illnesses and family history of mental illness. Einstein himself had schizophrenia in his immediate family (some doctors in the field believe he himself had high-functioning autism, but that's conjecture. Autism wasn't a diagnosis until the 40's or 50's?)
I think you're confusing being mentally disabled with mental illness a little too? (no offense :/)
Yes, people with some mental illnesses are cognitively impaired at times as their illnesses go through worse patches (off hand - autism, schizophrenia, bipolar and borderline personality disorder etc) this doesn't mean that they are not intelligent people when their illnesses abate, or when they are being properly treated...

Clearly breeding (the original off-topic! :P ) cannot negate the chance of physical brain trauma occurring... so i think it's a bit unfair to include injuries sustained after birth in the equation! Cheeky!

Originally Posted by RickyMaveety

Both intelligence and mental illness follow (more or less) the same statistical "bell curve" in any given population. The reasons for a higher incidence in individuals with low intelligence can be from (1) brain injury causing both, (2) mistreatment due to low intelligence causing mental illness, and (3) chemical imbalances causing both.

But, then perhaps the medical school where you learned graphic arts taught from a different set of text books.

Ouch! I'm allowed to be interested in how our brains function -and- be an illustrator, they'r not mutually exclusive *lol*

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by Aaida

Lol. Probably just stoking the fire here, but here goes



Come on... people have crap opinions all the time! ...just because you think the reasons for having said crap opinions are stupid, lame or totally unfounded doesn't mean they stop being opinions.

An opinion, stated as fact, with nothing else to support it is not an "opinion" I find worthy of the name. You apparently feel differently. My belief is largely founded on the laws of the United States with regard to slander and libel. I have no idea what your opinion is founded on ... since you have not stated the support for your statement and since your statement actually mis-states what I said.

I don't particularly care if opinions are "crap" or "unfounded" .... I do have a problem when they are crap, unfounded and stated as fact.

Originally Posted by Aaida

I noticed you replied to my post in the other thread after you wrote this reply, so you probably realized after you posted this that I don't actually own one (yet) ...I'm still shopping
But just in case - That paragraph was commenting that those seem to be the general opinions in this thread by other posters.

Personally, the Kindle doesn't look bad to me!

And, that was stated as an opinion. Simply by adding the words "Personally" and "to me" ... you stated what is clearly an opinion. Good on you.

Originally Posted by Aaida

I don't think that there is a problem with anyone having a particular opinion on a product tho, whether i think it's bulls**t or not.... I do think that there's a problem with people telling anyone they're not allowed to determine what they like and express it... I didn't mention my job to get bonus points for my opinion (i don't have one yet, anyway! *grin*) but to say that I'm someone who values how my things look highly... not everyone does - some people just want something that does a really good job and couldn't give a rat's what it looks like *shrugs*

Neither do I, as long as those opinions are actually stated as opinions. If they are going to be stated as fact, then there should be a factual argument to support it. Even if they are stated as opinions ... and clearly ... the person making the statement should at least try to be helpful and state WHY they have the opinion that they do ... even if it is simply to say that it is entirely subjective, and they have nothing more to support it than a gut feeling.

Originally Posted by Aaida

Lol. Before I get labeled a superficial trend-follower: I couldn't give a rat's what other people think looks cool or crap, and it doesn't matter whether other people agree with my choices either *grin* I'm not interested in purchasing social icons (ie the 'iPod' type of tech-hype etc)

Again, good on you. Although as I recall one of your posts contained a query as to what was "hot" in 2008. And, my question to you would be ... why would you give a crap what was (or was not) "hot" if you are not interested in social icons? Isn't that what being "hot" is all about??

Originally Posted by Aaida

...I'll probably create a custom skin for it anyway - think i saw www.mytego.com posted in one of the other threads, they didn't look too bad!

Originally Posted by Aaida

(Don't mind me I'm not arguing, promise! ...just going off on a tangent, it's an interesting line of thought) The two could merge once again in the future perhaps... when cosmetic surgery graduates to cosmetic genetic engineering, assuming that people rich enough to tamper with their/their children's genes for looks would also do it for health reasons /drifting

Bugger, sleep deprivation.. I must confess I posted at some disgusting hour of the morning
...does sound like it would be a fun one tho, doesn't it

I never take issue with a good argument. That implies that both sides have a point to make, and something intelligent to say on the matter. That sort of discourse is a lot of fun. Ignorance (which is what I see in blanket statements made by certain posters) is not fun. Willful ignorance is even less fun ... really very sad.

Originally Posted by Aaida

Oi! I didn't quote statistics, and I didn't say that people of normal or sub-normal intelligence cannot have a mental illness. Neither was I implying that intelligent people often have borderline disorders only - I included acute and borderline illnesses and family history of mental illness. Einstein himself had schizophrenia in his immediate family (some doctors in the field believe he himself had high-functioning autism, but that's conjecture. Autism wasn't a diagnosis until the 40's or 50's?)
I think you're confusing being mentally disabled with mental illness a little too? (no offense :/)

You did make a statistical statement, without the statistics to support it. What you said was "...A proportionally higher amount of abnoxiously intelligent people have borderline mental illnesses, or people in their family with mental illnesses"

You made a statement of supposed fact without your source material. The converse is just as likely true .... that a proportionally higher amount of low intelligence people have borderline mental illnesses, or people in their family with mental illness. No, I am not confusing being mentally disabled with mental illness .... I know the difference, I did my time in medical school and working at a Neuropsychiatric Instituted for part of the time I was at university. So .... no, not confusing them at all.

Originally Posted by Aaida

Yes, people with some mental illnesses are cognitively impaired at times as their illnesses go through worse patches (off hand - autism, schizophrenia, bipolar and borderline personality disorder etc) this doesn't mean that they are not intelligent people when their illnesses abate, or when they are being properly treated...

And, that is not what I said. I agree that people who are mentally ill may become cognitively impaired. That wasn't what was under discussion. However, you are certainly entitled to send the discussion as off track as you wish. I'm not going to try to stop you.

Originally Posted by Aaida

Clearly breeding (the original off-topic! :P ) cannot negate the chance of physical brain trauma occurring... so i think it's a bit unfair to include injuries sustained after birth in the equation! Cheeky!

Why would that be unfair? Especially if the "injury" is to the mental health of the individual? You made a statement about very intelligent people being somehow more prone to having "borderline" mental illness either themselves or in their families. My statement is nothing more than a contradiction of yours. I have seen more instances of mental illness in individuals, and families of individuals, who have very low intelligence. Sometimes probably genetic ... sometimes caused by abuse ... not brain damage ... just abuse.

But, hey .... I'm willing to take your belief as just that. A belief. I would simply suggest that you say that it is your opinion (rather than something that is based on study or personal experience) that people of higher intelligence are more likely to have mental illness either themselves or in their families. And, I will consider it a "crap" opinion.

Originally Posted by Aaida

Ouch! I'm allowed to be interested in how our brains function -and- be an illustrator, they'r not mutually exclusive *lol*

Of course they're not. However, if you plan to argue points about mental health or law, then please be prepared to support them with real medical research or legal research. Being "interested" in something is not the same as making mis-statements about it.

Of course, I should congratulate you on the mozzle of "abnoxious." Even though I perceived that as a very thinly veiled personal insult, I also thought it was funny.

[ThomasMcKean]

Originally Posted by Aaida

Oi! I didn't quote statistics, and I didn't say that people of normal or sub-normal intelligence cannot have a mental illness. Neither was I implying that intelligent people often have borderline disorders only - I included acute and borderline illnesses and family history of mental illness. Einstein himself had schizophrenia in his immediate family (some doctors in the field believe he himself had high-functioning autism, but that's conjecture. Autism wasn't a diagnosis until the 40's or 50's?)

1943, to be exactly. But then again, look at my signature... What the heck do *I* know about it? *Blink* Dr. Leo Kanner (pronounced like "Conner") had 11 kids at Johns Hopkins all with the same withdrawn symptoms. So he coined the term "autism" for them, because there was an abnormal absortion into self.

(If only I could talk the publisher into making those two books below into ebooks! God knows I've tried. Oh, how I have tried!)

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by ThomasMcKean

1943, to be exactly. But then again, look at my signature... What the heck do *I* know about it? *Blink* Dr. Leo Kanner (pronounced like "Conner") had 11 kids at Johns Hopkins all with the same withdrawn symptoms. So he coined the term "autism" for them, because there was an abnormal absortion into self.

(If only I could talk the publisher into making those two books below into ebooks! God knows I've tried. Oh, how I have tried!)

Do you still own the rights? If so, then a bit of legwork and you could self-pub. A little OCR, some intense tweaking, and a run through HarryT's tutorial and voila! You could publish at Amazon (although our very own Steve Jordan would advise against that,) or on Mobipocket. Or here, if you just want it out there and don't want the Gatesian income that it would bring you.