Are Baen books really that bad?

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by darryl

Does this mean that you do not want to know about a publisher who has an unstated political opinion that influences the choice of books they publish?

In an earlier post you stated "But MacMilllan do not have a political opinions." With respect, it is naive to believe that any publisher or individual employed by that publisher do not have political opinions. That MacMillan have apparently not stated that opinion means little or nothing. In any case, a good publisher will make sure that any political views they may have do not damage their business. Earlier posts in this thread seem to suggest very strongly that Baen have not let politics influence their choice of what to publish. If you choose to boycott Baen over this rubbish, it will be your loss.

Must politics play a role in what we read? I'd say no, then I remember we live in a world where Ann Coulter is an author.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by Manabi

I do have to question just how good he is at his job to state that Baen "specializes in works of 'military SF'". It doesn't seem like that's even the majority of what the publish, and as others have pointed out in the thread, Baen was founded to publish adventure SF, which certainly includes military, but is not solely military. He may be a sci-fi fan, but he appears to have a blind spot about Baen that extends to not even researching their catalog before making such statements. That's hardly what I consider professional. (But is, sadly, about par for the course for most journalism nowadays. )

Specializing in military SF does not preclude publishing other works. It can make up an inordinate proportion of their catalogue without making up the majority. Dr. Nefario's take is probably more informed than my own:

Originally Posted by DrNefario

I'm very surprised at the suggestion that Baen are not primarily associated with Military SF (and that Mil SF is not primarily associated with Baen). I'd have thought fans and non-fans would accept that. Isn't that what their fans are going there for? Isn't that kind of what it means to be a fan of the Baen brand, and not simply a fan of the individual authors?

It's pretty hard to think of another imprint which is so strongly identified with a small subgenre, and which has such a well-defined identity. Maybe a tie-in publisher, like Black Library.

[RDaneel54]

Originally Posted by Luffy

Must politics play a role in what we read? I'd say no, then I remember we live in a world where Ann Coulter is an author.

We live in a world with a multitude of diverse political viewpoints which are invaribly championed by authors with those viewpoints. It's always easy to disparage the writing of those whose viewpoint we detest and champion the writing of those we love. Isn't diversity fun?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by darryl

Earlier posts in this thread seem to suggest very strongly that Baen have not let politics influence their choice of what to publish. If you choose to boycott Baen over this rubbish, it will be your loss.

Which post?

They publish Brad Torgersen. The Hugo nominated short stories by him was totally bad so I do not get how they can publish his stuff. And politically the short stories I read was simple minded right wing stuff.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by tompe

Which post?

They publish Brad Torgersen. The Hugo nominated short stories by him was totally bad so I do not get how they can publish his stuff. And politically the short stories I read was simple minded right wing stuff.

#9, #11, #12, #15, #27, #34. #38, #41, #47 and #52.

I have not read any Brad Torgersen, but now intend to do so. The mere fact that his short stories were nominated for a Hugo indicates that your opinion of his writing is not universally shared. To quote BGM form post #16:

PHP Code:

Because you do not "like" an authors work does not make them a bad author. 


The same goes for an author's stories.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by darryl

I have not read any Brad Torgersen, but now intend to do so. The mere fact that his short stories were nominated for a Hugo indicates that your opinion of his writing is not universally shared. To quote BGM form post #16:

Google "sad puppy ballot". He was nominated on a political ballot. He was not nominated for content.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by darryl

#9, #11, #12, #15, #27, #34. #38, #41, #47 and #52.

I looked at #9 and it does not say anything like you claim. The claim was that the choice was influenced. The claim was not that other books was not published.

#11 says there is quality work but does not say anything about if the choice of books have been influenced.

I really do not get how it can be known that there is not political influence. From my point of view a lot of crappy books seems to be published which seems to support my suspicion.

A lot of good books also are published but all of the books I have read from Baen that have been well written and very good have not been right wing books.

[DrNefario]

I would definitely rather not know an author or publisher's politics, religion or other belief system.

Knowing and disagreeing can damage the way I approach a book. I'll always be suspicious that they're trying to push their objectionable views on me, even if they aren't. Knowing and agreeing doesn't make a book any better. It seems to me that the effect can only be neutral or negative, so I'd rather not know.

I didn't much enjoy Torgersen's Hugo stories this year, but I had previously kind of liked his Campbell nomination stories. Were these ones worse? Was I less well disposed towards the author? Were the politics more overt? I don't really know.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by tompe

I really do not get how it can be known that there is not political influence. From my point of view a lot of crappy books seems to be published which seems to support my suspicion.

A lot of good books also are published but all of the books I have read from Baen that have been well written and very good have not been right wing books.

We can of course never know for certain what role a publisher's politics plays in selections by any publishers. It just seems to me that a publisher with extreme views, right or left, who allowed those views to influence choices of what to publish would not be publishing anything contrary to those views, except perhaps for the odd token. The sheer variety of what Baen publishes tends, in my view, to show that political views have not unduly intruded in selecting what to publish. That you personally don't like a book does not mean that it is of such poor quality that it should never have been published. Particularly in the case of very popular authors such as Kratman and Ringo, who sell large numbers of EBooks and are also quite prolific.

The basic problem I have with the original article, as pointed out by other posters, is that it attempts to tar all of Baen's books with the same brush, which can ultimately, if taken seriously, damage Baen and some of its authors unjustly. Perhaps it is just coincidence that the Guardian sits on the opposite side of the political fence. Please just keep buying from Baen and, if you believe their right wing books are not "well written and very good", steer clear of them. Baen has plenty of other books to choose from which are not right wing and are therefore free of any suspicion, founded or unfounded, of publication for political purposes only.

[Waylander]

Let me clarify what I meant about the journalists' views. My examples were meant to draw attention to the fact that the books he approves of are more left-wing, the kind that a Guardian journalist would enjoy. The example of the Culture novels illustrates this point, as Ian M. Banks, rest his soul, was in the same political camp as Eric Flint, and was a socialist. My issue was with dismissing all books that don't fit his political views as rubbish. John Scalzi is a left-wing liberal, but he specifically states that he enjoys reading Baen books, and if he was British he would probably be a Guardian reader.

[BearMountainBooks]

Their covers are generally worse than a lot of indie covers. Whenever I work on covers and am having a hard time, I can always look to them for inspiration.

I wouldn't say Honor Harrington series (space opera) was at all political. Oh it might be, and it's been years since I read it, but if it was conservative/right-wing I missed it. They are space opera and very character driven so the politics barely matter (if at all) to the stories. My take away from a "political" standpoint was probably more of a "female" in a "male" world. Shrug. We are all colored by our own experiences.

Mercedes Lackey doesn't write in their sci/fi line (than I know of) but again I fail to see any sign of political alignment. She wrote one of the first gay characters I ever read (I think I was 12? or 16?).

I've read Eric Flint and (something to do with Mother. And an alien planet) and I do not recall anything overly political about it. There's another sci/fi author from their basket I've read, but it's not coming to me at the moment.

Nancy Fulda has been published by them and I know her stuff is not political. I think, in fact, they may have published the story of hers that was up for Hugo and it is about Autism more than anything.

I don't see it. There's some good authors in that stable of books. Sure, I don't love them all and I do think that Tony W. probably leans towards publishing more sci/fi than fantasy, but I hardly think the entire line needs to be cast in such a light. But that's just me.

Some books need "politics" but if they are recognizable as politics from the real world I generally don't finish them. If they are just world building, well then, they are going to be complex with good guys and bad guys.

[RDaneel54]

I like Baen - their policy on DRM, their focus on SF, their search for old and new authors to add to their selection. Because of Baen, I've discovered new authors, new ideas and most importantly new SF. Bottom line:

To the politically minded, all things are political - even when a reasonable person would see no political leaning or intention in the writing. This is not to say that there are no authors with a political agenda in their fiction writing, but for me it has to distract from the story to be noticeable. I just don't see it in the vast majority of what I have read from Baen, and I have read a lot from them.

I like reading SF and other types of writing. To search out publisher bias seems a waste of time to me; I'm too busy looking for my next great read.

Dean

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by taosaur

Specializing in military SF does not preclude publishing other works. It can make up an inordinate proportion of their catalogue without making up the majority. Dr. Nefario's take is probably more informed than my own:

I never read them for their sci/fi. The first Baen books I read were Mercedes Lackey. Back then I didn't pay any attention to the publisher. It was years before I looked at Baen to see what else they had that I might like--and it was after reading Holly Lisle who wrote some great and entertaining fantasy and what would be called urban fantasy today. It probably wasn't until I started submitting books to publishers that I even REALIZED they were known for sci/fi first and fantasy second.

There are a lot of readers out there who pay no mind at all to who the publisher is, what they may or may not specialize in and so on. There's nothing wrong with paying attention or not paying attention to such details either.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Luffy

Must politics play a role in what we read? I'd say no, then I remember we live in a world where Ann Coulter is an author.

Last I was aware, there is no federal statute mandating that that we read Ann Coulter. So I'd have to say, that politics still doesn't have to play a role in what we read.

If you had said must politics play a role in what gets published, you'd be right.... I'd also have to ask whether you have a point, other than I guess that it should be illegal to write books with a political message. Seems a little naive.

Anyway, enjoy your Censor Buns.

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I've read Eric Flint and (something to do with Mother. And an alien planet) and I do not recall anything overly political about it. There's another sci/fi author from their basket I've read, but it's not coming to me at the moment.

That one's Mother of Demons, if you wanted to know. It's one of my favorites. The only politics I've really noticed in his books is in 1632, and even that's just a bit of admiration for labor unions.