Amazon Rising

[speakingtohe]

I rarely order from Amazon but if I lived in the US maybe I would. I have no strong feelings as to their moral integrity, in fact I suspect it is much like that of other businesses both big and small.

I would like to see minimum wage at a higher standard, perhaps indexed to civil service wages or union wages, but can imagine the uproar that would cause.

Most companies only raise their base wages because of unionization, or to ward of unionization. Few do it out of the goodness of their hearts although I am sure there are exceptions in the very small business arena.

Someone mentioned Costco for example
http://www.ufcw.org/2013/10/30/costc...on-difference/.


They do pay higher wages thanks to many of its employees being unionised and that is a good thing overall, but it is up to the Amazon workers to become unionized. Costco pays a decent wage, I believe in order to keep more unionisation at bay but perhaps it is pure altruism.

And how well would consumers take the price increases that would follow? They would be demanding raises themselves which would lead to more price increases and spiraling inflation and at the end of it the same situation with no one any better off and the lowest paid probably considerably worse off. Not to mention those on social insurance who can barely buy food. In Canada the socially disenfranchised are treated very badly by past standards in this country and have about $550 a month to get by on.

No one is forced to work at Amazon, no one is forced to buy from them. I shop locally when the item is available and if the price is not a lot higher. I actually find it more convenient to go to a store and take it home with me than to wait for delivery and worry about safe dropping or missing the delivery and having to go and pick it up at UPS etc. But if the savings for ordering online are substantial I order online, or if it is not available locally I order online.

I am approaching retirement and will hopefully be able to maintain pretty much the same standard of living which is pretty frugal. I would be happy to live a bit more frugally if it meant that all of my fellow citizens had the means to pay for decent accommodation and food with a bit left over for fun. But I am afraid I am not willing to sink into poverty.
Selfish I know. Still it makes it hard for me to bash a company that is trying to remain successful and/or become more successful for paying only a reasonable wage and having only reasonable to good working conditions for their beginning employees

Helen.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Yup. It is, but goodness knows we won't focus on that. They should be paying more because the company makes more.

I know that there are some companies that do pay more (COSTCO comes to mind) and are great with their benefits. Perhaps the people working for Amazon should work hard, get good references and try and get hired by companies like COSTCO that pay more. They are out there.

I want everyone to make a living wage but not all jobs are meant to be careers and pay the bills for a family or individual. Not all jobs are going to let people take nice vacations, buy the newest car, Iproduct, a house and a lot of other things. If you want those things, then do what you can to get yourself to a place where you can get those jobs. There is an element of individual responsibility that is missing from this picture.

Maybe instead of blaming Amazon or other companies for doing what they are suppose to do, maximize profit, we should take a longer look at why people drop out and find ways to help people graduate from high school or allow more kids to go to votech school and gain valuable skills that pay more or make junior college and college more affordable for folks. But that would cost more in taxes and require a certain amount of political pain and we don't want that so let's just go back to blaming the greedy corporations.

Well my husband has a bachelors now and has yet to find anything that pays over $13 an hour here. He got a call last night from one of the recruiters for a job that is $10 an hour doing HVAC helper work. He went in this morning and she told him she is just testing him and ask will he work in this heat because most quit the first day because they can't handle it then she told him to call her back at specific time in afternoon to test if he really wanted the job. This jumping through hoops kept him from going to a temp to hire job that pays $13 an hour today. They are going to let him know in the morning if they still need someone for $13 hr job. The job market here is Raleigh is super tough and the process is well a little crazy. If Amazon offer him 12.50 for such a job I know my husband would jump on it so it irks me to hear someone whining about their job in this market and trying to make Amazon look bad in the process.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

Most companies only raise their base wages because of unionization, or to ward of unionization.

Those and worker retention.

It costs money to train new employees and it takes (paid) time on the job for employees to become proficient at the job so data-driven companies (like Amazon) keep track of their turnover rate and factor it into their salary structure.
Nobody ever gets to 100% retention (and a certain amount of turnover is good for keeping the workforce from aging in lockstep) but for most well-run organizations there is an optimum point where labor costs and productivity balance out. At that point it is actually as unwise to underpay as it is to overpay.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

We will stop shopping at Amazon at the same time we stop shopping at every other large multinational, who does the same thing.

You mean, like Costco?

Am I saying that Amazon treats it's staff so horrendously that I won't shop there? No. But I don't buy this they-are-all-the-same. They aren't. Some, like Costco and overstock.com, are better. Compared to other employers in mainland China, Foxconn is probably better. And some are indeed much worse than Amazon:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/wo...ing-homes.html

So while I'm not boycotting Amazon, I am trying to buy tea from Taiwan.

One good thing about Amazon is that when they acquire a well-managed retailer -- think Zappos.com -- they are smart enough not to Amazonize it.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

You mean, like Costco?

Am I saying that Amazon treats it's staff so horrendously that I won't shop there? No. But I don't buy this they-are-all-the-same. They aren't. Some, like Costco and overstock.com, are better. Compared to other employers in mainland China, Foxconn is probably better. And some are indeed much worse than Amazon:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/14/wo...ing-homes.html

So while I'm not boycotting Amazon, I am trying to buy tea from Taiwan.

One good thing about Amazon is that when they acquire a well-managed retailer -- think Zappos.com -- they are smart enough not to Amazonize it.

I am sure there are companies that are better than Amazon (and worse as well). But they are all looking out for their own bottom line, and sacrificing their employees in some manner.

I am sure there is something to complain about at Costco too. Thus, according to some people, we have a slippery slope where Costco is "abusing" their workers, and is "evil", and we shouldn't shop there, etc.

Or we would, if it was as stylish to complain about Costco as it is to complain about Amazon.

[Rizla]

Our governments are happy to allow imports from countries where workers slave in dreadful conditions for a pittance. As such, ultimately we will have to match those labor conditions to stay competitive. You may be doing okay, but your children and / or children's children opportunities will reduce and their working and living conditions will suffer. That's if the ecosystem can support the industrialization of India and China, which I find doubtful.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Your bias about our bias is biased.
So it goes.

...

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Well my husband has a bachelors now and has yet to find anything that pays over $13 an hour here. He got a call last night from one of the recruiters for a job that is $10 an hour doing HVAC helper work. He went in this morning and she told him she is just testing him and ask will he work in this heat because most quit the first day because they can't handle it then she told him to call her back at specific time in afternoon to test if he really wanted the job. This jumping through hoops kept him from going to a temp to hire job that pays $13 an hour today. They are going to let him know in the morning if they still need someone for $13 hr job. The job market here is Raleigh is super tough and the process is well a little crazy. If Amazon offer him 12.50 for such a job I know my husband would jump on it so it irks me to hear someone whining about their job in this market and trying to make Amazon look bad in the process.

That's a terrible recommendation for a Bachelor's Degree. Those wage offers are devastating. Maybe have hubby go for a Master's Degree in Accounting. Then have him take civil service tests for government accounting jobs.

Once one gets stereotyped at the low end of the job market, there is little chance to ever escape.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

That's a terrible recommendation for a Bachelor's Degree. Those wage offers are devastating.
.

Times change.
Conventional wisdom changes.
Last year's hot profession can be this year's glut.
And regional variations have an impact.
The Carolinas have a reputation as a great place to live and just a couple years ago the Triangle was second only to Silivalley in tech hiring. Throw in a new (undeclared) recession atop the already bad economy and it is actually wiser to be under-employed than unemployed.
Staying too long out of work is far worse for the resume.

(Less relevant here but still noteworthy: not all BAs are created equal. Look back to the days of the Wall Street occupation for examples.)

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Well my husband has a bachelors now and has yet to find anything that pays over $13 an hour here. He got a call last night from one of the recruiters for a job that is $10 an hour doing HVAC helper work. He went in this morning and she told him she is just testing him and ask will he work in this heat because most quit the first day because they can't handle it then she told him to call her back at specific time in afternoon to test if he really wanted the job. This jumping through hoops kept him from going to a temp to hire job that pays $13 an hour today. They are going to let him know in the morning if they still need someone for $13 hr job. The job market here is Raleigh is super tough and the process is well a little crazy. If Amazon offer him 12.50 for such a job I know my husband would jump on it so it irks me to hear someone whining about their job in this market and trying to make Amazon look bad in the process.

I am sorry to hear that. I have no idea what the background is so it is hard to say much more then that.

Not all degrees are created equal and what degrees are in need fluctuates based on the economy. So a degree that was hot 10, 20, 30 years ago could be worth little today. A degree that is hot today could mean little in five year. Once you have the degree, work experience tends to become more important.

Generally speaking, people with BA/BS are more likely to be employed and make a higher wage. This continues as you move up the degree chain.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by sirmaru

That's a terrible recommendation for a Bachelor's Degree. Those wage offers are devastating. Maybe have hubby go for a Master's Degree in Accounting. Then have him take civil service tests for government accounting jobs.

Once one gets stereotyped at the low end of the job market, there is little chance to ever escape.

We got a stipend while he was in college so yes it was worth it. We were able to save up to move here. The problem is there just isn't many entry level jobs right now. Raleigh has 4 universities and graduation just happened last month so they go fast not to mention my hubby is turning 40 so he has to compete with those younger than him.

We had a consultation with a free service offer here that helps with job hunting and resume. They told him the best bet would be to get on a factory where he could quickly move up the chain with him having a degree and the experience so now he has a good resume thanks to them and before it was too outdated we are starting to send them out again. The HVAC is just temp work to pay the bills as our savings is depleted but the in laws are helping out alot till he finds work.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I am sorry to hear that. I have no idea what the background is so it is hard to say much more then that.

Not all degrees are created equal and what degrees are in need fluctuates based on the economy. So a degree that was hot 10, 20, 30 years ago could be worth little today. A degree that is hot today could mean little in five year. Once you have the degree, work experience tends to become more important.

Generally speaking, people with BA/BS are more likely to be employed and make a higher wage. This continues as you move up the degree chain.

The problem is everyone here has a degree of some kind unlike back in TN where only a few did so he is like a little fish in a big sea of big fish now. Most jobs here are for science and research or very high tech while back in Tennessee you had factories and less technical companies where all you needed to know was Office software. Don't ask why we move. It was his idea. He wanted to be close to mom and dad as they are in their 70s now. We just had no idea how different everything was here now. Almost all entry level jobs were snatch up by student just graduating from the 4 major universities here. I'm sure sometime later this year more will open up right now it's take what job you can get and keep looking.

[RHWright]

Originally Posted by Blossom

The problem is everyone here has a degree of some kind unlike back in TN where only a few did so he is like a little fish in a big sea of big fish now.

Hang in there, the Triangle is really a great place full of opportunities, but competition is fierce.

I spent about a year working retail jobs when I moved down here in 2007, but have been with the same company since 2008. Recently, my wife went through about a year of temp jobs (with WAY too much downtime between assignments) until she found a permanent position.

You're not specific about what he's looking for, so I'll just say hang in there. Lots of great companies in the area of all sizes.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by RHWright

Hang in there, the Triangle is really a great place full of opportunities, but competition is fierce.

I spent about a year working retail jobs when I moved down here in 2007, but have been with the same company since 2008. Recently, my wife went through about a year of temp jobs (with WAY too much downtime between assignments) until she found a permanent position.

You're not specific about what he's looking for, so I'll just say hang in there. Lots of great companies in the area of all sizes.

Thank you! We are learning just how fierce. Right now a production job would be great. He worked at a factory for the last 5 years so he has plenty of experience. He was the guy who they could put in any position on the line because he knew how to do them all. They moved him around to fill in as people left or missed work. So any factory work he is a quick learner. He applied to some Customer service jobs as well as he did Job Control in the Air Force for about 3 years before they contracted the position out to civilians. Right now he is falling back on HVAC helper work he has 4 years of experience on to pay bills.

[sirmaru]

Originally Posted by Blossom

We got a stipend while he was in college so yes it was worth it. We were able to save up to move here. The problem is there just isn't many entry level jobs right now. Raleigh has 4 universities and graduation just happened last month so they go fast not to mention my hubby is turning 40 so he has to compete with those younger than him.

We had a consultation with a free service offer here that helps with job hunting and resume. They told him the best bet would be to get on a factory where he could quickly move up the chain with him having a degree and the experience so now he has a good resume thanks to them and before it was too outdated we are starting to send them out again. The HVAC is just temp work to pay the bills as our savings is depleted but the in laws are helping out alot till he finds work.

Without special skills like technology and engineering government jobs are his best bet especially at his age. Tell him to go to Federal, State and Local installations in his area and look for postings of Civil Service tests. A BA or BS will get him in the door. They pay better and have good retirement after 20 years.

If his dad knows folks in high management positions, try networking through his contacts. Entering private industry at low levels usually goes nowhere and may end in permanent unemployment as one passes age 50. That is especially true with our tendency to outsource good starting jobs to Asia.

Government jobs are usually NOT advertised so there is less competition to get them. Plus, they offer promotional tests to move up with very little competition if one is good at test taking.

If he wants to stay in private industry, it may pay to apply to foreign corporations especially in Japan, China, Germany and the UK. Those companies like to hire Americans. Many have US installations so he may not have to move overseas.