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#61 | |
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#62 |
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#63 | |
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The very simple (haha) issue here is: is what Google is doing crossing some spirit-of-the-law/letter-of-the-law line or not? Last edited by ApK; 11-19-2013 at 11:29 AM. Reason: stupid errors now preserved forever in Harry's quote. :-) |
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#64 | |
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#65 | ||||
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http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 Which also says Quote:
I could as well quote other snippets from the same document that would seem contradictory. It isn't as cut and dried as you seem to feel. Quote:
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Are you saying that Google making money makes it right? I am pretty sure Google is not paying each author money of the ads, although I could be wrong. Even if they are this does not make it right. Lots of ways to make money by exploiting others, the use of a registered trade name comes to mind. Profiting off of others against their will even if you are sure it will not hurt them is not good thing IMO. Helen |
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#66 | |
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Here's a link to a book which will also show just how much of a snippet they show... http://books.google.com/books?id=0Fk...ed=0CC8Q6AEwAA If you just go to the books page instead of searching for something you don't even get the snippets, you get an info page for the book... http://books.google.com/books?id=0Fk...ed=0CC8Q6AEwAA |
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#67 | |
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Helen |
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#68 | ||||
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They would love a world in which even the books you own, you don't own. The First Sale Doctrine is the publishers' worst nightmare (something they have destroyed within the ebook market -- yay publishers) and want to use copyright as a justification to charge you for anything they can get away with. That is the REAL issue here. Publishers believe fair use is an excuse made up by people who just don't want to pay money to publishers for no reason. Quote:
I was pointing out Quote:
Google is NOT exploiting authors' work in any way. They are merely making their search engine more useful, by helping you find books more easily. Whether authors want that help or not is inconsequential, since Google is doing nothing illegal and thus authors have NO rights in this matter (any more than they can stop me from quoting the same quotes, from MY copy, to my friend). The fact that Google makes money off book snippets does not have any bearing on, well, ANYTHING, since the ONLY money they make is the money from all your future searches that you make since the book snippets makes Google stand out as a better search engine. |
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#69 | |
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The discussion of fair use above is getting a little off the wall. A lawyer isn't necessary to interpret fair use every single time someone wants to make use of that right; as with anything, there are some instances where a use clearly falls within the ambit of fair use, and then there are edge cases where it's far less clear.
speakingtohe, what you consider to be "right" and what is actually a right under copyright law don't entirely match up. At a fundamental level, you seem (feel free to correct me) to think an author should have absolute control over the uses that are made of their work; however, copyright provides only limited rights, and it is clear copyright is not a property right. Copyright is not a fundamental or moral right, it is a right completely created by statute and the common law. Here's a quote to illustrate: Quote:
Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 11-19-2013 at 03:06 PM. |
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#70 | |
Wizard
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My personal interest in Google being a better search engine does not seem that important in the grand scheme of life. Sometimes I have to use another engine. Google does honor takedown notices in regards to other website's content as I am sure you are aware, but seem to feel they themselves should be exempt because it would cost them money. What's up with that do you think? Helen |
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#71 | |
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Making money isn't bad at all, it's HOW they make money that's a problem. It seems to me that Google is not making money through exploitation of copyright, so it's all good. GOOGLE feels it is important to be the best, which is all that matters -- for them. It is their motivation to be what they are. What takedown notices have they refused on the grounds it is too expensive? |
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#72 | |
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I am well aware that what I consider to be a right or even what I consider to be right is not the ruling factor in the universe. It is merely my idea based on my standards of ethics and fairness etc. I often fall far short of these standards myself much to my dismay. Still I would rather have these standards and fall short of them then rely solely on the precise lettering of the law in to govern my behavior or that of others. Most places I could take my dog or canary and simply shoot it because it was a nuisance and the law wouldn't care unless I tortured it first. Lots of bizarre or unjust laws in the world IMO although you may disagree. On a moral note, Google does piously post takedown notices that it complies with so why exactly do you feel that they are entitled to a moral exemption, or do you? I would be most interested to know what a fundamental or a moral right actually is and if it is an unchanging concept passed down through the ages. For centuries people could beat other people simply because in the eyes of the law they were chattels and this was considered by the chattel owners as a fundamental right. Still that way in some places and in the eyes of many people. Not saying my standards are the 'right' standards, but I do feel that just because it is legal it is not always right. Helen |
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#73 | |
Wizard
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And possibly the financial motivation factor is not that strong. After all what is a few hundred million to a company who paid out 125 million in 2008 on a very similar issue in 2008 and another 30 million to their lawyers and continued blithely on their way despite being aware that according to the court decision at that time it was not quite the right thing to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors...ct_with_Google Perhaps those that say all information should be free for the benefit of humanity are right, and in a perfect world it would be. But in this world all information being free could lead to most information being worth exactly what is paid for it. In other words nothing. I sometimes find that to be the case already ![]() Helen |
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#74 | |
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Also...I believe that $125 million was a settlement agreement that Guild and Google arrived at to make the litigation go away, not a court decision. Also, that settlement agreement was ultimately rejected by the court, and that's why the litigation between Google and the Guild continued and why Google now has this latest court victory under their belt. I don't know if all information should be free, but I have no problem with Google providing information which they are (according to this latest court decision) legally able to provide, temper tantrums by the Guild notwithstanding. |
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#75 |
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This!
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Don't judge a book by its cover .... or do you? | MikeOxlittle | General Discussions | 32 | 08-01-2012 07:32 PM |
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Don't judge a book by its title? | plib | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 11 | 04-01-2012 02:37 AM |
Judge to copyright holders: Consider 'Fair Use' first before doing anything | Alexander Turcic | News | 13 | 08-22-2008 07:59 PM |
Judge a cover | montsnmags | Lounge | 13 | 04-22-2008 03:12 PM |