ebooks...the price ascent to 'Everest'....

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

You're all missing the crux... It's not what the "real cost" of the book is that determines ebook sale price, it's what the market will tolerate.

Thank you. It's basic capitalism. You price your product at what the market will bear in order to maximise your profits.

However in an ideal market there's competition. Competition ensures that the prices stay as low as possible. Let's say I want to buy tomatoes for a pasta sauce I'm making, if one shop is selling tomatoes at a price which is way above cost then the one down the road can make money undercutting them.

The problem with ebooks is if I want to read Stephen King's latest book there's only one publisher offering it and with that publisher forcing the same price on all retailers there's no competition for that book. Of course I could go buy a different book that's competition of a sort - but that's like saying "Lettuce is cheaper make a salad instead."

Which is why I think agency pricing is wrong.

[MrPLD]

If there's enough money appeal, competition will squeeze its way in somehow.

[p_a_smith]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

If there's enough money appeal, competition will squeeze its way in somehow.

When publishers control the supply and pricing the only competition that might appear will certainly be labelled piracy. I think the reality of ebook publishing has closer parallels to the music industry a decade or so ago and what is happening with television and movies right now (Megaupload.com comes to mind) than anything else in traditional economics.

If publishers keep the prices higher than the public perceives as fair then piracy will become more acceptable as a response (because digital media are easy to distribute). Which is priobably the reason behind the recent push from publishers to tell us how expenseive ebooks are to produce and how "fair" the prices are. (Something which I was responding to in my original note).

[MrPLD]

There's the massive influx of independents swamping the market now. The Big6 are losing their holding power. Sure, the independents have a lot of noise in their ranks, but it does appear to be the way the future is trending (likewise with the music scene as well it would seem).

[p_a_smith]

Originally Posted by MrPLD

There's the massive influx of independents swamping the market now. The Big6 are losing their holding power. Sure, the independents have a lot of noise in their ranks, but it does appear to be the way the future is trending (likewise with the music scene as well it would seem).

I've found it interesting that some bigger name authors have gone that way recently and are releasing ebooks directly or through smaller publishers. Of course once the story is written and edited it isn't rocket science to take a manuscript and make it an ebpub (or mobi, pdf etc).

[MrPLD]

Quite right - all that writers are really looking for these days is an electronic/internet distribution channel. Amazon tends to get picked a lot purely because of the ease in which the content is delivered to the consumer, when we bought our first Kindle eBook, it was one of those "Oh my, that's a winner!" moments.

[nogle]

Originally Posted by latepaul

...
The problem with ebooks is if I want to read Stephen King's latest book there's only one publisher offering it and with that publisher forcing the same price on all retailers there's no competition for that book. Of course I could go buy a different book that's competition of a sort - but that's like saying "Lettuce is cheaper make a salad instead."

Which is why I think agency pricing is wrong.

I would like to be driving a Cadillac, but I can only afford a Chevy. Production costs are similar, so pricing should be similar... It is the evil auto industry and their "price fixing" that keeps me from driving the vehicle I want.

If your desire to read <insert author/book> exceeds your price point, you will buy it. If not, you won't. If your price point is zero, then the waiting list at the library is a good option.

Books are not perfectly substitutes, as the content (the intellectual property) matters. When you are buying an eBook, you are buying a license to the intellectual property only; there are no physical goods (the paper). It is the value of the intellectual property that drives the price of the book, not the physical good.

Same with cars, the value of the design, prestige, etc. of the Cadillac makes it more valuable than the Chevy, not the cost of the parts and assembly.

[nogle]

Originally Posted by Rizla

No printing, transportation, storage or paying of store staff salaries. They're having a laugh!

It is still very simple. Refrain from buying ebooks until the industry complies with your economics.

How they manage their costs and profitability is of no concern to you. Buy books when D>P.

[buze]

Originally Posted by p_a_smith

If publishers keep the prices higher than the public perceives as fair then piracy will become more acceptable as a response (because digital media are easy to distribute). Which is priobably the reason behind the recent push from publishers to tell us how expenseive ebooks are to produce and how "fair" the prices are. (Something which I was responding to in my original note).

Exactly. In fact, they manage to convince a few people in this thread in particular. I also suspect a few backhanded methods from them, in the same way as the music publisher tried to seed "low quality" rips in the piracy channels a few years ago.

Ultimately, if the price is fair and the usage rights are fair to the buyer, publisher sell stuff. It took 10 years for the music industry to understand, the movie industry is possibly starting to get it, while ebook publishers are still right of the beginning of the learning curve.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by nogle

I would like to be driving a Cadillac, but I can only afford a Chevy. Production costs are similar, so pricing should be similar... It is the evil auto industry and their "price fixing" that keeps me from driving the vehicle I want.

That's a good analogy in some ways because as with a particular book a particular car model will cost the same new whichever dealer I go to. However a different model is still a car and if similarly spec'd then its a much closer substitute than a different book would be. (You might even argue that a book that was very similar to but not identical to another book is a bad thing - originality is considered a good thing in writing.)

Also cars can be re-sold. This in itself helps keep prices down because a second-hand version of the same model is also a close substitute.

Of course in the same way paper books can compete with ebooks and paper books (in the UK at least) can be discounted - but then it comes down to how badly you want it in ebook form.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by nogle

It is still very simple. Refrain from buying ebooks until the industry complies with your economics.

How they manage their costs and profitability is of no concern to you. Buy books when D>P.

That's what I'm doing. I don't buy Agency 6 ebooks at all. That doesn't mean it's somehow immoral for me to grumble about their business decisions; I'd like for them to produce books I could enjoy spending money on, and teach my kids to spend money on in the future.

Shrug. I don't have a problem with "they don't want my business;" I'm not running out of things to read. I have some inchoate worries about the future of publishing, because it does look like the formerly biggest players are being squeezed and they're not coping well with that, but I'm not worried about the future running out of books, or authors being unable to make a living at their craft, or anything similar.

It's not like *fewer* authors are able to make a living writing now, with all the piracy and freebies on the internet, than were able to in 1975.

Still, I don't feel any obligation to shut up about mainstream publishers being stupid--"it's raining soup, and you bring teaspoons instead of buckets; WTF are you thinking?"

[xg4bx]

not to be flippant but how many people actually resell their paperbacks? is the dime you'd get for it (if you're lucky) really worth the headache of lugging books to a store or selling on the interwebs? most used bookstores give store credit at best and its not worth the cost of materials to sell online. the best most people are able to do is wait for a library sale to box them up and donate. net gain:$0.00.

i've just heard that a lot and it befuddles me. unless you've got collectible editions secondhand books are almost literally worthless.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

not to be flippant but how many people actually resell their paperbacks?

Resell? Not many. Give away to friends/acquaintances/leave at the laundromat for someone else to read? Quite a few.

There's a difference between "I want to make back some of the money I spent on this," which is going to be a limited and rare impulse, and "now that I'm done with this, I don't want it to just go to waste," which is much more common, and strongly encouraged in communities where resources are limited.

And it's a big part of how books have always worked--I don't know anyone who became an avid reader by reading nothing but new books bought full-price. I'm sure there are some people who did; some people come from wealthy enough backgrounds that kids are encouraged to buy books rather than share them with friends. But for most of the people I know, "hand it along when you're done with it" is an expected part of any book purchase. It's understood that one is often never "done" with a book--it might be something you want to reread forever, or just have on the shelf, or share with one's own children--but if you're really done, it's considerably less selfish to give it to someone else than to treat it like empty cereal boxes to be pulped.

[David_A]

Ok, new here, only had my Kobo Vox a couple of weeks.
Been reading this thread and found it rather interesting. One of my hobbies is photography so have been looking around at the different books available, I thought you might find this comparison interesting.

Book depository: Way Beyond Monochrome 2nd edition Hardback £31.92 Free delivery worldwide

Kobo books: Way Beyond Monochrome 2nd edition Download options: Adobe DRM EPUB £41.27

Same book, So for £10 LESS I can have a hardback edition delivered to my door?
Why should an ebook cost more than the actual hardback book.

David

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Resell?
But for most of the people I know, "hand it along when you're done with it" is an expected part of any book purchase. It's understood that one is often never "done" with a book--it might be something you want to reread forever, or just have on the shelf, or share with one's own children--but if you're really done, it's considerably less selfish to give it to someone else than to treat it like empty cereal boxes to be pulped.

This is how I always used all but my dearest dtb's (dead tree books). This kind of had attracted me to BookCrossing about 8 years back, I did it both the "leave a random book lying around where people can find it" way, AND the "local meetup" way where people brought books and others took them off their hands and they selected new ones to read.

I had a lot of sticker shock with the price of e-books at first too. My first exposure to e-books was to the classics at MR and PG, I didn't even bother to look to see how much e-books cost before buying my first reader because it didn't dawn on me that something the size of the files I downloaded from PG would be over $15.

I do notice a few independent authors (John Locke, J.A. Konrath, etc) who price their e-books VERY accessibly (like $1-$2) tend to make a lot of money at it. It seems to make sense to price non-physical property lower (although I am not suggesting everyone do the one dollar thing) since there's no on-going product costs. After the costs of production have been received, the rest is profit. I know some people who write knitting patterns that way. They charge low, more people will buy, and boom, before they know it they've earned a lot of money without having to peddle anything extra. (depending on the pattern's popularity and if the pattern is written well).