Potentially very disappointed - Page 5

t_rectenwald · 11-21-2007, 11:02 AM

My worry is this:

Amazon owns Mobipocket DRM. The "Kindle Editions" replace Mobipocket DRM. So, what is Amazon going to do with Mobipocket, and what impact is that going to have on devices such as the Cybook G3, iLiad, etc.

I understand that Amazon wants to make money and eliminate competition. But in this case, the competition is largely themselves! By ignoring Mobipocket DRM, they are alienating existing customers and that is just not cool in my book.

Until the dust settles and we have a better idea of where all of this is heading, I'm avoiding the future purchase of any Mobipocket DRM book for my Cybook. I'm going on a one man boycott of giving any money at all to Amazon, directly or indirectly.

igorsk · 11-21-2007, 11:29 AM

Check out this comment:
http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007...#comment-97967
If true, this is pretty sad news.

HarryT · 11-21-2007, 11:32 AM

Sad news????

Sorry, I don't understand. Those publishers are saying that their Kindle deals are not exclusive, so they are free to produce eBooks in whatever format they wish. It's not sad news; it's very good news!

igorsk · 11-21-2007, 11:36 AM

I'm not talking about the post, read the comment the link points to (#8):

Quote:

The five guys at the Mobipocket headquarters received no preliminary info about Kindle form Amazon, and its a safe bet they know their days are numbered.

HarryT · 11-21-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

I'm not talking about the post, read the comment the link points to (#8):

I don't believe that for an instant. The Mobi business is totally separate from Amazon - they'd have to be crazy to shut it down.

Consider, if nothing else, that the majority of Mobi sales are outside the US, so the Kindle is virtually irrevelent to that. Why on Earth would they shut it down?

Liviu_5 · 11-21-2007, 11:43 AM

I never bought a Mobipocket drm book, and I do not intend to buy one or a Kindle edition as long as I cannot put them on any device I want.

This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle.

Considering the large number of Mobi books out there, the popularity hit they would take by shutting Mobi down is probably the one factor that stops them doing it now, so it's possible they will sell it.

Convergence with Kindle is unlikely since there is no reason they should not have done it originally, if they wanted so.

HarryT · 11-21-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle.

Amazon aren't supporting two DRM formats; they don't sell MobiPocket format books. The fact that Amazon own Mobi is virtually irrelevent - they are completely separate businesses to all intents and purposes. The Kindle is a US business, the Mobi one an international business.

Nate the great · 11-21-2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

I never bought a Mobipocket drm book, and I do not intend to buy one or a Kindle edition as long as I cannot put them on any device I want.

This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle.

Considering the large number of Mobi books out there, the popularity hit they would take by shutting Mobi down is probably the one factor that stops them doing it now, so it's possible they will sell it.

Convergence with Kindle is unlikely since there is no reason they should not have done it originally, if they wanted so.

We're pretty sure that it's not two formats. Really. I've tested this. So far as I know, the only difference is the 2 or 3 bytes that indicate the retailer. If I knew where those bytes are in the header, I would be trying to get them to work right now..

EDIT: I just tested my theory. It didn't work.

t_rectenwald · 11-21-2007, 12:10 PM

I think it'd be beneficial if Amazon would allow their Mobipocket DRM customers to exchange for the same book in Kindle format. Folks that have Mobipocket DRM are likely going to avoid the Kindle as it'd make their former books unreadable.

This would allow Amazon to keep their profits and avoid competition while, at the same time, providing a path to move their already paid for literature to their new format. For Amazon, I would see this as a "win win" situation. They could entice former Mobipocket DRM customers and still disallow that format from appearing on the Kindle.

Even though Amazon's Kindle format may technically be Mobipocket, this has no relevance unless they provide a means for former Mobipocket customers to read their library on a new device.

All in all, I'm still depressed by the news. I figured that the Kindle would accelerate ebook adoption into Mobipocket DRM, instead it may very well destroy it.

igorsk · 11-21-2007, 12:13 PM

It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

Liviu_5 · 11-21-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

While technically it's true that azw and prc are the same format, they are still 2 different drm schemes since you cannot read azw with Mobi reader and similarly with drm prc on Kindle.

So in a sense Amazon is competing against itself, and I just cannot imagine this happening for more than a short while. I am quite convinced that only the large number of drm prc files out there and the sudden introduction of the Kindle made this possible, but I still do not see this as sustainable.

igorsk · 11-21-2007, 12:47 PM

Does Zune play PlaysForSure tracks yet? I don't think so.
If Microsoft could do such thing, I don't see why Amazon can't.

Nate the great · 11-21-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

I know, I found it. It's actually AMAZON_1100.

IreneDelse · 11-21-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

And that exclusivity is more than likely a condition of their contract with the provider of the DRM that they do support.

PCs, of course, are another exception, but who wants to read for pleasure on a PC?

Only if the PC is a tablet with E-Ink display!

SUSGOD · 11-22-2007, 01:05 AM

Mobipocket Reader Desktop 6.1 Beta claims it can group book titles by author or group icons by genre. Does the Cybook library allow a reader to choose books by author or genry or does one have to scroll through every title in the library to locate a specific book?

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11-21-2007, 11:02 AM	#61
t_rectenwald Member Posts: 15 Karma: 22 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Frederick, MD Device: Bookeen Cybook G3	My worry is this: Amazon owns Mobipocket DRM. The "Kindle Editions" replace Mobipocket DRM. So, what is Amazon going to do with Mobipocket, and what impact is that going to have on devices such as the Cybook G3, iLiad, etc. I understand that Amazon wants to make money and eliminate competition. But in this case, the competition is largely themselves! By ignoring Mobipocket DRM, they are alienating existing customers and that is just not cool in my book. Until the dust settles and we have a better idea of where all of this is heading, I'm avoiding the future purchase of any Mobipocket DRM book for my Cybook. I'm going on a one man boycott of giving any money at all to Amazon, directly or indirectly.

11-21-2007, 11:29 AM	#62
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Check out this comment: http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007...#comment-97967 If true, this is pretty sad news.

11-21-2007, 11:32 AM	#63
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Sad news???? Sorry, I don't understand. Those publishers are saying that their Kindle deals are not exclusive, so they are free to produce eBooks in whatever format they wish. It's not sad news; it's very good news!

11-21-2007, 11:43 AM	#66
Liviu_5 Books and more books Posts: 917 Karma: 69499 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: White Plains, NY, USA Device: Nook Color, Itouch, Nokia770, Sony 650, Sony 700(dead), Ebk(given)	I never bought a Mobipocket drm book, and I do not intend to buy one or a Kindle edition as long as I cannot put them on any device I want. This being said, to me it just does not make sense for Amazon to support 2 drm formats, so I think they will sell Mobipocket, they will shut it down or they will converge it with Kindle. Considering the large number of Mobi books out there, the popularity hit they would take by shutting Mobi down is probably the one factor that stops them doing it now, so it's possible they will sell it. Convergence with Kindle is unlikely since there is no reason they should not have done it originally, if they wanted so.

11-21-2007, 12:10 PM	#69
t_rectenwald Member Posts: 15 Karma: 22 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Frederick, MD Device: Bookeen Cybook G3	I think it'd be beneficial if Amazon would allow their Mobipocket DRM customers to exchange for the same book in Kindle format. Folks that have Mobipocket DRM are likely going to avoid the Kindle as it'd make their former books unreadable. This would allow Amazon to keep their profits and avoid competition while, at the same time, providing a path to move their already paid for literature to their new format. For Amazon, I would see this as a "win win" situation. They could entice former Mobipocket DRM customers and still disallow that format from appearing on the Kindle. Even though Amazon's Kindle format may technically be Mobipocket, this has no relevance unless they provide a means for former Mobipocket customers to read their library on a new device. All in all, I'm still depressed by the news. I figured that the Kindle would accelerate ebook adoption into Mobipocket DRM, instead it may very well destroy it.

11-21-2007, 12:13 PM	#70
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	It's not "two bytes", it's actually a string (e.g. AMAZON_11). Mobipocket needs to know the address of DRM server to authenticate the book, and it has a mapping of vendor IDs to server name (stores.xml file). In this case it doesn't know the vendor AMAZON_11, so it cannot authenticate it.

11-21-2007, 12:47 PM	#72
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Does Zune play PlaysForSure tracks yet? I don't think so. If Microsoft could do such thing, I don't see why Amazon can't.

11-22-2007, 01:05 AM	#75
SUSGOD Connoisseur Posts: 84 Karma: 21 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Device: Aluratek Libre-eBook reader PRO	Mobipocket Reader Desktop 6.1 Beta claims it can group book titles by author or group icons by genre. Does the Cybook library allow a reader to choose books by author or genry or does one have to scroll through every title in the library to locate a specific book?

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