Why We’ll Never Have Innovative E-Books

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

Pleeeease.... 3D books???

I just want talented novelists, historians, philosophers, etc, putting all their talent and brilliance in a book. Just that. Words and sentences and paragraphs, one after the other without some enhanced "thing" popping from the corner of the page.

Leave the techy-gadgetry bonanza for other objects or activities, ok?....

Wot, just reading?? Bit avant garde...

[Cyberman tM]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

Leave the techy-gadgetry bonanza for other objects or activities, ok?....

Since you're asking so condescendingly - no.

It's not as if I could do anything either way anyway. I'm just a user and at most could buy such a device/book.

But I still wonder how it is that you all accept electronic books so easily - while at the same time seem so opposed to anything that isn't a most exact representation of a paper book.
Even the notion of adding an MP3 player - something that sooner or later is likely to be built into the CPU anyway - seems to offend quite a few.

Not sure if it's going through, so I'll probably repeat myself - I wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to use or create such a "enhanced book" or whatever you'd call it. Nor would I condone/approve that.

Where would be the harm in accepting this option to be explored instead of vehemently saying "NO F....... WAY!!!!" whenever it is even mentioned?

So you wouldn't like it. Fine, be yourself, don't use it.
Do you think that all current books would suddenly be converted, the originals destroyed and no new books created anymore? The rise of MP3 didn't kill all written books in favor of spoken books did it? Or did TV and the movies kill all books?

--

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome.

[Salgueiros]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Since you're asking so condescendingly - no.



--

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome.

No need to be angry, Mister. I was just stating that books were born almost perfect. They are wonderful already, and it is a waste of time and resources to try to make it something it does not need to be.

Make manuals with videos or interactive things, but books, no... we like to read and they are great the way they are now, just that. Peace?

[anamardoll]

I can think of plenty of ways innovation could enhance a reader's experience, as long -- of course -- as they could be ignored/turned off to personal preference.

I love Mercedes Lackey filk music, almost all the songs tie to a specific book/chapter and they're also very niche in genre just because it's a tricky thing to market. I'd love to be reading "By The Sword" and have a link in there that plays "Kerowyn's Ride" if I wanted to hear it -- and people might go and buy the song later for their players. Again, it should be unobtrusive, but available.

I loved the Nook Color idea of cookbooks with videos and was distressed when they went the "app" method instead. I want to have an epub (or whatever) version of the book to archive, use on another reader if necessary, etc, but I also like the video idea as an option.

Technical manuals have GREAT options for interactivity. Already discussed that.

Choose Your Own Adventure novels could do a lot with interactivity.

A lot of horror/fantasy stories I read could have been improved with the addition of pictures or possibly short videos. I remember one book I was reading that was talking about a faery with wings and about 2 chapters in I realized she was human-sized. That changed the ENTIRE book that I'd read so far, and I could tell that the author had NOT meant for this to be a twist. A picture/video would have helped immensely.

I really do like the idea of soundtrack integration if the user is interested. I like to get my other senses involved when I'm reading. Sight, sound, can we have smell next?

Just as long as I can turn it off and ignore it at will, I'm in favor of innovation.

[Salgueiros]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I can think of plenty of ways innovation could enhance a reader's experience, as long -- of course -- as they could be ignored/turned off to personal preference.

I love Mercedes Lackey filk music, almost all the songs tie to a specific book/chapter and they're also very niche in genre just because it's a tricky thing to market. I'd love to be reading "By The Sword" and have a link in there that plays "Kerowyn's Ride" if I wanted to hear it -- and people might go and buy the song later for their players. Again, it should be unobtrusive, but available.

I loved the Nook Color idea of cookbooks with videos and was distressed when they went the "app" method instead. I want to have an epub (or whatever) version of the book to archive, use on another reader if necessary, etc, but I also like the video idea as an option.

Technical manuals have GREAT options for interactivity. Already discussed that.

Choose Your Own Adventure novels could do a lot with interactivity.

A lot of horror/fantasy stories I read could have been improved with the addition of pictures or possibly short videos. I remember one book I was reading that was talking about a faery with wings and about 2 chapters in I realized she was human-sized. That changed the ENTIRE book that I'd read so far, and I could tell that the author had NOT meant for this to be a twist. A picture/video would have helped immensely.

I really do like the idea of soundtrack integration if the user is interested. I like to get my other senses involved when I'm reading. Sight, sound, can we have smell next?

Just as long as I can turn it off and ignore it at will, I'm in favor of innovation.

As long as they can be turned off, do not interfere with the quality of the text, and do not make the ebook cost more because of that... i am willing to let is pass (i.e. buy it) even though i don't think they are necessary.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

As long as they can be turned off, do not interfere with the quality of the text, and do not make the ebook cost more because of that... i am willing to let is pass (i.e. buy it) even though i don't think they are necessary.

I think probably everyone here can agree with that (turn off-able, "text only" options, and cost parity).

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I think probably everyone here can agree with that (turn off-able, "text only" options, and cost parity).

Not just able to turn off the multimedia features. But only if they are backwards compatible. I don't want to find out that a book I want is not compatible just because my reader doesn't support these features and it won't work.

I don't expect many eink readers to go the way of video. Audio maybe. But not video. I know it can be done. But that's not the point.

[din155]

Backward compatibality will always be a problem in the digital world. I guess if there will be books with audios and videos, there will be calibre version 15 with ability to convert to any format that we want..
I can definitely see the utility of these books as anamardoll has already elaborated. It would be interesting to see if the ereaders will progress the same way. Not that I am unhappy with the current status of ereaders but its fun to think..

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Since you're asking so condescendingly - no.

It's not as if I could do anything either way anyway. I'm just a user and at most could buy such a device/book.

But I still wonder how it is that you all accept electronic books so easily - while at the same time seem so opposed to anything that isn't a most exact representation of a paper book.
Even the notion of adding an MP3 player - something that sooner or later is likely to be built into the CPU anyway - seems to offend quite a few.

Not sure if it's going through, so I'll probably repeat myself - I wouldn't dream of forcing anyone to use or create such a "enhanced book" or whatever you'd call it. Nor would I condone/approve that.

Where would be the harm in accepting this option to be explored instead of vehemently saying "NO F....... WAY!!!!" whenever it is even mentioned?

So you wouldn't like it. Fine, be yourself, don't use it.
Do you think that all current books would suddenly be converted, the originals destroyed and no new books created anymore? The rise of MP3 didn't kill all written books in favor of spoken books did it? Or did TV and the movies kill all books?

--

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the angry dome.

I'm a gadget nerd - I flat out love gadgets and tech-toys and all that stuff. I've never seen a class of gadget I didn't love.

I'm also a bibliophile - I love books - both for the contents and the objects themselves. I never saw electrons as a replacement for paper but as an addition to paper.

My only truly dedicated reader - the Sony - has an mp3 player, but I've never used it. I use my iPhone as an iPod all the time and I've watched video on it, my Droid, and the Nook Color.

I read a lot of science fiction and fantasy and I can see tons of places where there's room for innovation. Those genres are tailor-made for maps, images of non-humans, and a whole host of other things. Yes there are things I prefer to imagine, but there are other things I'd love to see. If there's music playing in a certain scene, it could be interesting to have the option to have that same music playing when those pages are on the screen.

I'd be concerned about cost - all those extras would cost money to produce - but it's certainly an option and I can see them appealing to the same market as special editions.

My real problem - as I've stated before - isn't with the idea of innovation and enhanced electronic books. My problem is with the idea that audio/video clips embedded in books is innovation - and that's what a lot of the people pushing enhanced editions seem to be thinking.

That's not innovation.

That's the kind of thinking that brought us the failure known as "motion comics."

[MrsJoseph]

Music and video may not work in fiction and genre fiction books but I would love to have those options in some of my non-fiction and specialty books. Some great examples (for me):


The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Story of the Abbey Road Years 1962-1970 - This book could never be an effective ebook for me without some type of multimedia. There is a lot of text but there is also a wealth of photos. This book could be enhanced greatly with additional audio from studio time, interviews, etc.

Design Like You Give a Damn: Architectural Responses to Humanitarian Crises - Yet another book that would be horrible as an ebook without multimedia additions. Architect interviews would be a great addition to this book, along with site videos, elevations, and [of course] color photo.

I think that when you guys think that ebooks don't need innovation - most of you are speaking of novels and non-fiction books that deal with 99.99% text only (maybe a couple of diagrams tossed in for good measure).

[anamardoll]

@Lemurion,

MY GOD INTERACTIVE MAPS. YES. I am so tired of having to flip back to page 1 to squint at some tiny map that the author had to squeeze onto one page to fit. Fantasy and Scifi could SERIOUSLY benefit from interactive maps. As well as map-videos that show the journey that occurred between the Chapter 4 / Chapter 5 jump.

If there's a "text only" version of these books also available for download, backwards compatibility shouldn't be an issue, I don't think.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

@Lemurion,

MY GOD INTERACTIVE MAPS. YES. I am so tired of having to flip back to page 1 to squint at some tiny map that the author had to squeeze onto one page to fit. Fantasy and Scifi could SERIOUSLY benefit from interactive maps. As well as map-videos that show the journey that occurred between the Chapter 4 / Chapter 5 jump.

If there's a "text only" version of these books also available for download, backwards compatibility shouldn't be an issue, I don't think.

I was thinking of maps that showed the progression of battles - and the terrain. I think it would be a great way to show the reader how things happened.

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Music and video may not work in fiction and genre fiction books but I would love to have those options in some of my non-fiction and specialty books. Some great examples (for me):


The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions: The Official Story of the Abbey Road Years 1962-1970 - This book could never be an effective ebook for me without some type of multimedia. There is a lot of text but there is also a wealth of photos. This book could be enhanced greatly with additional audio from studio time, interviews, etc.

Design Like You Give a Damn: Architectural Responses to Humanitarian Crises - Yet another book that would be horrible as an ebook without multimedia additions. Architect interviews would be a great addition to this book, along with site videos, elevations, and [of course] color photo.

I think that when you guys think that ebooks don't need innovation - most of you are speaking of novels and non-fiction books that deal with 99.99% text only (maybe a couple of diagrams tossed in for good measure).

I can certainly see the benefits to audio-visual material in non-fiction. It makes a lot of sense for a book about the Beatles to include both recordings and concert footage.

For the architectural book - I'd love the illustrations, and three dimensional models - but to be honest I'd get a lot more from interviews in text form than in either straight audio or audio-visual form.

But even where I do see the benefit, the fact remains that one of the reasons I read things is because I don't want to listen or watch. For me, turning what I want into what I don't want isn't innovation.

[anamardoll]

I'm not adverse to listening and watching -- I read because I want to learn/experience something.

So, I reckon that's another vote in favor of "turn-offable". Which I think is perfectly reasonable.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I was thinking of maps that showed the progression of battles - and the terrain. I think it would be a great way to show the reader how things happened.

I can certainly see the benefits to audio-visual material in non-fiction. It makes a lot of sense for a book about the Beatles to include both recordings and concert footage.

For the architectural book - I'd love the illustrations, and three dimensional models - but to be honest I'd get a lot more from interviews in text form than in either straight audio or audio-visual form.

But even where I do see the benefit, the fact remains that one of the reasons I read things is because I don't want to listen or watch. For me, turning what I want into what I don't want isn't innovation.

As a genre reader I would LOVE to have interactive maps, access to songs (M. Lackey was a great example!) and of course some (not all) photos. I would love to see the author's rendition of Abomination from Monster Hunter International!

But to be honest...I would accept just having the map somewhere easy to locate in an ebook at this point. *grumbles*

I can see why you would prefer a text interview...but the people in this particular book had some very unusual solutions that do well with vocal explanations. Some of this information just works well in that verbal aspect. One of the architects in the book, Sergio Palleroni, is so innovative that students fight like cats and dogs to get into his internship programs. They have done great interviews of him and his students at work-sites. The video interviews were fabulous - inter sped with diagrammed explanations and physical examples - I would squee with excitement if I had additional access to this world that is almost impossible for me to join.

Sometimes I read because it's the only access I have.

[Ditchleyportrait]

to all the people that don't want innovation, i'd bet you'd like something like this, though:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/vi...and-apps-video