Borders in USA to close

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

So you would prefer that those human resources be relocated to India for pennies on the dollar while Americans end up out of jobs in their own country?

I would much prefer you take my words at face value rather than trying to put your own words in my mouth. Thanks.

I was simply implying that much like how "paperless" systems actually tend to generate more paper, "automated" systems always seem to need a whole host of people to support them.

Just because there's nobody asking you; "paper or plastic?" doesn't mean there aren't people involved in the sale.

I'll leave the xenophobic, socio-political outsourcing issue for others to debate.

[luqmaninbmore]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I would much prefer you take my words at face value rather than trying to put

your own words in my mouth. Thanks.

I was simply implying that much like how "paperless" systems actually tend to generate more

paper, "automated" systems always seem to need a whole host of people to support them.

Just because there's nobody asking you; "paper or plastic?" doesn't mean there aren't people involved

in the sale.

I'll leave the xenophobic, socio-political outsourcing issue for others to debate.

There is nothing xenophobic about being critical of the race to the bottom generated by global capitalism. While the nationality of the worker is of no concern to me (Indians, Americans, Venezuealans all have the same intrinsic worth) the fact that the drive to relocate jobs abroad is in fact an attempt to increase profits by drastically reducing labor costs does concern me. While there certainly is job relocation, the notion that these changes create as many jobs as they eliminate is empirically false. Jobs will be lost permanently and the at least some of the new jobs that are created
will be lower paying. Increased productivity combined with the search for increased profit margins ensures that this will be so. Whether the money allocated to the worker is spent in India or Nebraska is morally neutral. What is problematic is the fact that the relocation will involve a siphoning off of
the money from the sale of goods from the locality in which they are sold up the corporate (and social latter) to the Executive class and the absentee landlords (i.e. shareholders) in the form of increased profits. This enriches neither the average American or the average Indian. Being married to an Indian and having developed an interest in the country, I can assure you that while globalization has certainly helped a small segment of the population who have access to jobs they otherwise would not, these
benefits have not trickled down to the bulk of the population, who are either being exploited in new ways by the multi-nationals or else are subject to the traditional forms of exploitation endemic in Indian society: the bunya (money-lender), rampent caste-ism, indentured servitude, gender discrimination.

[RainingLemur]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

You don't seriously believe that everybody that works in an office has a cushy over paid job, do you?

Yes. And I'm TOTALLY not exaggerating in the least. Cause it's not like I (and several others) work in an office, and am grossly underpaid or anything. No no... I have the wool over my eyes. Good call.

[Soldim]

Originally Posted by kennyc

And all I have to do is click one button and it's on my Kindle. What could be better?

Getting it on a Sony instead?

[petrucci]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The server that the ebook resides on does not set up, maintain, and upgrade itself. The code written to provide the "storefront" functionality does not write itself (or upgrade and improve itself). Nor does the carpet in the room where the physical hardware resides sweep itself. The "digital revolution" may alter, re-prioritize, and/or relocate its "Human Resources", but it doesn't eliminate them.

You are correct that humans are still needed. However, much less human labor is needed. In addition to the labor that would be needed for an online only operation, a brick and mortar bookstore needs people to man the floor as well as ring up customers on the register. (The b/m store also needs its floors swept and software engineers to create the point of sale system.)

I would also like to point out that there are storefront software solutions that are available at no cost. There are also free hosting sites. Thus these products and services are not necessarily part of the monetary economy.

As jobs are pruned from the economy through greed, it makes it harder on the average joe to survive. This greed is not exclusive to big companies. Consumers are also greedy when they purchase a product 'for less.' Unfortunately, this behavior creates vicious cycle.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

So you would prefer that those human resources be relocated to India for pennies on the dollar while Americans end up out of jobs in their own country?

Whoever is the best at competing in a global economy is going to be the one who gets the jobs. The companies providing said jobs are only doing the smart thing. Why should they pay more for less qualified labor?

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'll leave the xenophobic, socio-political outsourcing issue for others to debate.

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

There is nothing xenophobic about being critical of the race to the bottom generated by global capitalism.

Yes, but is there anything socio-political about it? I thought I was pretty clear about what I was discussing/not discussing.

[Kimmy_Kitty_1116]

If only mechanized agriculture had not been implemented by evil greedy people, the worlds population could be largely employed procuring enough food to feed most of us (barely) and nobody would ever have to retrain.

Bad, nasty, hateful change.

It is only because people are greedy.

[shopintheusa]

Any word if www.borders.com will remain in business? I believe Circuit City shut down all their stores but still have an online website.

[Hellmark]

Circuit City's website bought by Tiger Direct, who operates it now after Circuit City went bankrupt and liquidators came in. This was also the case with CompUSA. At this point, the entire corporation is being shut down, and if anything remains afterwards, it will be a completely separate entity, sharing only the name.

[NVash]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

Whoever is the best at competing in a global economy is going to be the one who gets the jobs. The companies providing said jobs are only doing the smart thing. Why should they pay more for less qualified labor?

Youre kidding right? Please tell me youre kidding. I think its more like pay less for more qualified labor these days but thats just me.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by NVash

Youre kidding right? Please tell me youre kidding. I think its more like pay less for more qualified labor these days but thats just me.

We're saying the same thing. Companies outsource if they believe they can get the same skillset or a better one, for less money. It makes no sense to them to pay more money to someone who has less qualifications. Right?

[luqmaninbmore]

It also makes no sense to continue subsidies and tax breaks to companies that are disloyal to the nations that gave them birth, yet this continues a pace. There areeven tax breaks designed to help defray the cost of out sourcing.

[NVash]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

We're saying the same thing. Companies outsource if they believe they can get the same skillset or a better one, for less money. It makes no sense to them to pay more money to someone who has less qualifications. Right?

Yes, I misunderstood you. My apologies.

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

It also makes no sense to continue subsidies and tax breaks to companies that are disloyal to the nations that gave them birth, yet this continues a pace. There areeven tax breaks designed to help defray the cost of out sourcing.

Im going to be honest from the beginning here. I dont know much. But what I do know is that not only do these things NOT make sense but they also cannot go on. Too many people are ending up unemployed and too many businesses are going belly up. If this keeps up we might end up seeing another Great Depression.

[Elfwreck]

theferrett on Livejournal has a post about his reactions to the bankruptcy, with links to several of his older posts about Borders, including how they killed themselves off by trying to save money:

Many of those slow-moving books are the books that draw people to your store. Yes, that Theodore Sturgeon book only sells a copy a year, but the customer who buys that copy goes, "Holy God, I've been looking for that book for years. And this store has it? Oh my God, this place has everything!" By reducing your stock to the books that already sell, you're actually reducing the chances of amazing a customer with your selection, thus ensuring their eternal loyalty.
...
The cost-cutting didn't just stop at inventory, either; management trimmed all of the spendy niceties out of the budget, from the expensive (but comfortable) paper bags with handles to the in-store events funding. And that wouldn't be a bad idea, except that we're across the street from every B&N in existence. If you're going to bet the farm on the premise that we're significantly better than B&N, then you want to make damn sure that everything about us is a cut above them.