Expansion of Book Uploads for the iLiad & for other devices

[RWood]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

...[*]In the E-Books forum, we create an upload category for multi-formatted e-books, i.e. e-books in formats that can be easily converted for a wide range of readers....

It almost sounds as if this is either a vague description of PDB formatted books or a dumping ground for HTML, HTML0 (BookDesigner), TXT, and RTF source files.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

Good suggestion and I think it will be similar to what we'll have set up (by tomorrow or so). If you go to the E-Books Uploads, you'll see a new column that shows the format (or the device the book was specifically made for). Also there is a drop-down menu where you can sort for a specific format of uploaded books. I think this is easier than having us add the format info in the title every time.

I was suggesting something like...

Becke, Louis: The Mutineer: A Romance of Pitacairn Island. v1. 13 June 07 LRF2

So then the database generator will pick up the LRF2 and know what format it is and fill in the format field properly.

And for PDF, I suggest PDFA4, PDF1, and PDF2. PDF1 for the iLiad and PDF2 for the Sony Reader. We can do similar things for when a file type has multiple versions. LRF1 & LRF2 .. LRF2 might work on the Librie, but not guaranteed. And the same thing for source files too. A designation to know what type of files the source files are if anyone wants to post them. But this means then that the source files will have to be posted separately unless with have a header like LRF2/HTML0 so that would mean it's for the Sony Reader and a Book Designer source file.

And there should be a place to describe all this stuff as well. The wiki would be the place (IMHO).

[Robert Marquard]

Originally Posted by Hadrien

You're wrong, you can have links in what you call static pages too. HTML is not much more dynamic than some fixed size format, it's just easier to reflow. If you want advance design and typesetting, fixed size formats are much more powerful than HTML.

No, i am arguing on a different level.
There are two forms of ebooks. One concentrating on keeping the experience of paper books while adding some features (mainly navigational not presentational). this is where typography and static pages are the focus. The other form goes for new experiences with text. This means allowing reflow of the text and the many dynamic features HTML allows. This makes the presentation dynamic so some typographic content has to be dropped (usually because it cannot be rendered).
For most of the texts typographical detail is irrelevant because they have none. The separation of content and presentation allows to make the text independent from the presentation device. This is why the majority of ebooks is in HTML not PDF. There is room and need for both forms of ebooks, but not for equal shares on the market.

[Hadrien]

Originally Posted by Robert Marquard

No, i am arguing on a different level.
There are two forms of ebooks. One concentrating on keeping the experience of paper books while adding some features (mainly navigational not presentational). this is where typography and static pages are the focus. The other form goes for new experiences with text. This means allowing reflow of the text and the many dynamic features HTML allows. This makes the presentation dynamic so some typographic content has to be dropped (usually because it cannot be rendered).
For most of the texts typographical detail is irrelevant because they have none. The separation of content and presentation allows to make the text independent from the presentation device. This is why the majority of ebooks is in HTML not PDF. There is room and need for both forms of ebooks, but not for equal shares on the market.

I also believe that there's a need for both format, but I don't consider that HTML separates content from presentation. An XML format with special tags for books and semantic information would be much more suited for this task.

HTML wasn't designed for books, but some of its basic tags can still be useful. Extending this set of tags with special tags for books formatting, the structure of the text (for all sorts of text, the structure of a novel is quite different from a play) and metadata would be the right solution.

If the readers themselves, can't render the structure of the book using such tags, we can still use stylesheets or some software to transform for example a <chapter> tag into a TOC at the beginning of the text, and a real chapter heading.

[Robert Marquard]

Yes, some XML which is an expanded XHTML is probably the way to go (in fact Mobipocket is going that way albeit a bit crudely).
I use "HTML" and "PDF" only as names because they are the dominating formats for the two forms of ebooks. RTF would be an alternative term for HTML and TeX for PDF.
The main difference is that HTML recognizes that presentation of content can be done in different ways. PDF is unable to separate content and presentation.

[nekokami]

TeX can, though.

[Hadrien]

Originally Posted by nekokami

TeX can, though.

That's what we generate our books with on Feedbooks ;-)

We can do stuff like <chapter> <--> \chapter
Easily support footnotes, create a TOC, support hyphenation etc...

[bookbinder]

I would much rather download books in BookDesigner format than in lrf. Making small changes to a book's display is one of the main advantages of this medium, and to my mind outweighs the reasons for providing a fixed format!

[HarryT]

Those of us who are creating books for this site are pretty much all in agreement that uploading books in BD format is not a good idea.

The reason for this is that there are a lot of people out there re-selling PD books, and we don't want to give them a ready-made source of nicely formatted books. It is, as you may be aware, a great deal of work to create a nice-looking book from the PG original - some of my anthologies represent literally days of work. This is work I'm happy to do for the benefit of people on this site, but I'm not prepared to give the fruits of my labour, free of charge, to people wanting to make a "fast buck" from such material.

If you wish to upload BD stuff yourself, however, go right ahead - there will be an "other formats" upload area opening shortly.

[bookbinder]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Those of us who are creating books for this site are pretty much all in agreement that uploading books in BD format is not a good idea.

The reason for this is that there are a lot of people out there re-selling PD books, and we don't want to give them a ready-made source of nicely formatted books. It is, as you may be aware, a great deal of work to create a nice-looking book from the PG original - some of my anthologies represent literally days of work. This is work I'm happy to do for the benefit of people on this site, but I'm not prepared to give the fruits of my labour, free of charge, to people wanting to make a "fast buck" from such material.

If you wish to upload BD stuff yourself, however, go right ahead - there will be an "other formats" upload area opening shortly.

Harry, I understand that. As for me, if uploading a book in BD format helps profit-makers as well as enthusiasts, that would be discouraging indeed, but as long as there are enthusiasts out there benefitting from it, I'd want to continue orienting myself to what's best for them.