A former Kindle user's manifesto... (or something like that..)

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Hell, I have the plugin but I still can't figure out how to strip DRM from epubs (Amazon, I did). And I grew up using dos.

But really, the reason for buying the Kindle 3 is that it's basically the cheapest e-ink e-reader that doesn't suck in terms of screen quality. Trying to read from a Kobo or Nook 1 would probably leave me blind, much less frying my eyes with an LCD like Nook Color.

nook is only $10 more and screen quality is really a matter of choice. i find the kindle 3 screen unpleasant with its gray background. i much prefer the beige background of the nook screen. text wise, i cannot make much of a difference with the kindle 3 and nook side by side.

[abookreader]

Do people go to other device forums and do this because I can't say I've ever noticed it.

I mean, does the nook forum have their Kindle groupies who hang out there with the sole purpose to annoy?

[FF2]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Hell, I have the plugin but I still can't figure out how to strip DRM from epubs (Amazon, I did). And I grew up using dos.

But really, the reason for buying the Kindle 3 is that it's basically the cheapest e-ink e-reader that doesn't suck in terms of screen quality. Trying to read from a Kobo or Nook 1 would probably leave me blind, much less frying my eyes with an LCD like Nook Color.

This former cobol programmer found it was not that hard - actually, similarly as easy as the Amazon stuff. You once again need the READER app on the pc and then download the books.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by abookreader

Do people go to other device forums and do this because I can't say I've ever noticed it.

I mean, does the nook forum have their Kindle groupies who hang out there with the sole purpose to annoy?

I have been known to post in the Nook forums. Normally in a topic asking about the Kindle but in a few others when I felt the need to.

I have not started a topic questioning why people bought that device. I am sure that there are Nook owners who think I am a Troll.

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by abookreader

Customers never have to put up with anything. Go buy a nook. That's what a marketplace economy is about. Pretty much the one thing you can't do though is insist that Amazon must bend their business to your individual will. Right now, the majority of digital reader buyers don't agree with you and your concerns.



Except for - what if the Adobe Content Service were to go out of business and there is no longer a company there to verify your ePub DRM?

And what do you mean exactly that these things are not an issue in the ePub world? Book format has nothing to do with price. ePub books cost the same as AZW books. If Amazon starts jacking up book prices, somebody will put out a reader that reads cheaper books and customers will flock to them instead of Amazon.

In fact, your entire argument sound eerily like the Agency 5. We can't allow Amazon to offer low prices now because what if they stop wanting to offer low prices five years from now and insist on high prices. Thus, we must save you from that theoretical doom that might happen five years from now by insisting that the low prices must stop now and be replaced with the high prices that we're scared they will insist on.

There, aren't you glad we're hear to protect you?

Amazon apologists? Puhleeze.

i do own a nook. the kindle users should not have to go to the extent of breaking drm and converting formats to access their content on a different reader. and i am not insisting amazon do anything - those are your thoughts, not mine. what i said was that my interests precede those of amazon "for me". so their having made a business decision is scarce consolation when it comes to accessing amazon bought content on another reader.

as for a majority of buyers not agreeing with me - sanity is not statistical.

the rest of your post - not sure what to say except to tell you to re-read my earlier post. i was pointing out the risks associated with amazon gaining a monopoly or near-monopoly position in the market. your interpretation of my post is wildly off mark.

people who make excuses on behalf of a company are apologists. why are you taking it so personally? i did not point fingers at anyone.

[ProfCrash]

I don't break DRM to read my content on my current reader. I buy my books from Amazon because they are fairly priced and available. I have not needed to leave Amazons store. They have what I want at a reasonable price.

Perhaps the Kindle folks are a bit tired of people saying that we are locked into a specific store and other such silliness.

If you think being able to buy DRMed books from three or four stores and reading them on one device is freedom, good for you. I happen to think I am doing just fine buying books from one book store with the option of buying from others if I want.

I don't think the Kindle lovers try and force their opinions on DRM down peoples throats. I find being lectured on the evils of Amazons DRM tiresome.

[Mitsuya Cider]

ePub does indeed rock, and you can use custom firmware for kindle to support it natively.

I convert ePub to mobi with calibre, and have never had a problem.

But yes, I do wish amazon would natively support ePub.

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

I don't break DRM to read my content on my current reader. I buy my books from Amazon because they are fairly priced and available. I have not needed to leave Amazons store. They have what I want at a reasonable price.

Perhaps the Kindle folks are a bit tired of people saying that we are locked into a specific store and other such silliness.

If you think being able to buy DRMed books from three or four stores and reading them on one device is freedom, good for you. I happen to think I am doing just fine buying books from one book store with the option of buying from others if I want.

I don't think the Kindle lovers try and force their opinions on DRM down peoples throats. I find being lectured on the evils of Amazons DRM tiresome.

I respect that and if it felt I was forcing down opinions, I apologize. I responded purely because I am tired of some Kindle users making excuses for Amazon. Also, I care about fence-sitters who read through these forums. Once upon a time, I was one.

What Amazon is doing by going proprietary is not good for customers. No amount of DRM breaking or format conversion can change that.

[abookreader]

people who make excuses on behalf of a company are apologists. why are you taking it so personally? i did not point fingers at anyone.

Because it is a highly dramatized term to use for a little $100 machine, just like "Manifesto."

I own a Kindle. I own a Sony. In a year or two as they wear out I will look around at what is available and again buy the product that looks the best to me. I'll probably spend an hour or two thinking about it. Choosing this product isn't a lifetime commitment that I might rue for the rest of my days if I get it wrong.

All of this onerous pontificating of "what ifs" and warnings of the evil empire stealing our future is just over the top.

the kindle users should not have to go to the extent of breaking drm and converting formats to access their content on a different reader.

They probably shouldn't but if they choose to happily play in the Amazon walled garden - then why is that a bad thing? Frankly, Amazon treats me well and I really don't care all that much if they EVER turn on the ePub switch because in exchange for AZW, I don't have to put up with Barnes and Noble Customer service.

Do you truly believe that Amazon customers don't know they have the option of leaving whenever they want to? That they've never heard of "ePub" until you show up to tell them about it? Perhaps you see yourself as some sort of savior here to lead the uneducated to the Promised Land?

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Kitabi

What Amazon is doing by going proprietary is not good for customers. No amount of DRM breaking or format conversion can change that.

If this is true, how do you explain the incredible success of the little device?

Most people are happy just reading 'as is'......between Amazon and public domain books, there is more than one lifetimes worth of reading for anyone. Thats their choice, and I don't see where you have the right to tell them that they are wrong.

For those of you who DON"T strip the drm on the books you buy.......good luck when BN or Amazon decide to go a different way......as Amazon once did.

Forewarned is forearmed.

[daffy4u]

Something to think about. Kindle owners are not the only people who are breaking DRM. There are tools for all the current ebook formats (except iBooks for now) and they are being used by owners of all kinds of devices. Even ePub has it's various DRM flavors. Don't get "locked" () into the idea that Kindle owners are the only ons using the tools available.

I would say 97% of the books I read on my Kindles are from Amazon (IMO they still tend to have the best selection and prices). I still read them in their DRM'd form BUT I store them without DRM in mobi and ePub formats. Those books I purchase or freebie downloads from elsewhere may be read on my Sony and stored as DRM free mobi and ePub (books in Secure eReader get stripped and converted since neither my Kindle or Sony will read them).

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by abookreader

Because it is a highly dramatized term to use for a little $100 machine, just like "Manifesto."

To me the high drama is coming from certain Kindle owners who keep ignoring the obvious to passionately support their device of choice.

I own a Kindle. I own a Sony. In a year or two as they wear out I will look around at what is available and again buy the product that looks the best to me. I'll probably spend an hour or two thinking about it. Choosing this product isn't a lifetime commitment that I might rue for the rest of my days if I get it wrong.

All of this onerous pontificating of "what ifs" and warnings of the evil empire stealing our future is just over the top.

As is any discussion of DRM and drawing parallels to the recording industry which is all too common on MR. Certain business plans and customer behaviors have certain outcomes. One can call it "pontificating" or one can call it "learning from the past".

They probably shouldn't but if they choose to happily play in the Amazon walled garden - then why is that a bad thing? Frankly, Amazon treats me well and I really don't care all that much if they EVER turn on the ePub switch because in exchange for AZW, I don't have to put up with Barnes and Noble Customer service.

Good for you! As I said in an earlier post - my concern is the fence-sitters and non-technical people, not the power users.

Do you truly believe that Amazon customers don't know they have the option of leaving whenever they want to? That they've never heard of "ePub" until you show up to tell them about it? Perhaps you see yourself as some sort of savior here to lead the uneducated to the Promised Land?

Now who is going for high drama?

Also, you seem to have skipped over the fact that I am not beholden to ePub or any company associated with it. I would happily start buying Amazon if they started a consortium to share their technology.

[Kitabi]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

If this is true, how do you explain the incredible success of the little device?

Most people are happy just reading 'as is'......between Amazon and public domain books, there is more than one lifetimes worth of reading for anyone. Thats their choice, and I don't see where you have the right to tell them that they are wrong.

For those of you who DON"T strip the drm on the books you buy.......good luck when BN or Amazon decide to go a different way......as Amazon once did.

Forewarned is forearmed.

What does pointing out customer lock-in have to do explaining the popularity of a product?

Where did I say people are "wrong" in choosing Kindle?

[DiapDealer]

Where did I say people are "wrong" in choosing Kindle?

You didn't. You just seem to have a problem with people expressing their fondness for the company that manufactures it.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by abookreader

Do you truly believe that Amazon customers don't know they have the option of leaving whenever they want to? That they've never heard of "ePub" until you show up to tell them about it? Perhaps you see yourself as some sort of savior here to lead the uneducated to the Promised Land?

I absolutely DO believe that for the most part, the people who are all now jumping on the e-book bandwagon have no idea what .epub or .azw formats are, let alone DRM. People I've spoken with know nothing about compatibility or that they will be locked in (I use the phrase deliberately) to buying from Amazon if they get a Kindle. They don't know what format library books come in, or even if their libraries offer e-books. They are looking at a gadget and thinking, Oooh, shiny! And of course sales pitches don't go into the limitations of the device, and the expert reviews assume a knowledge base that many consumers do not have.

So, yeah, sometimes there's a desire to point things out to people who haven't done the research. I'm new to this e-book world myself, and I'm really glad that I stumbled on information that went beyond the hype when I made my purchase decision.