Interesting article on book pricing and why it might rise

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I can recommend plenty... what kind of tastes do you have? What fandoms might you be interested in?

I usually read anything that can be described as fiction. Weird doesn't scare me and I have been particularly fond of horror since I was 12-13 and my mother told me not to read Stephen King because it will give me nightmares. She didn't know what she was talking about; his books aren't even that scary.
Plus I never read any science fiction that I didn't like, and the same goes for sci-fi TV shows.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

3 great stories from last year:

They were great!

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The standard method for dealing with fanfic: click around until you find something you like. Read everything by that author. If they collaborate with anyone, read everything by their collaborators. Then go looking for recommendation lists that include those authors.

Sounds great! Karma to you.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The issue that publishers are dealing with is that ebook sales will cannibalize pbook sales. How many people are likely to get both for the same book?

I was talking about the case where the publisher is making both the pbook and the ebook, if you were wondering. And this is like saying that if an ereader manufacturer makes devices with two color options for covers, the device with the most desired color will cannibalize the other.

If the price is in the impulse buy range, there would be enough people who would want to buy both, or buy an ebook rather than go to the library. Or get a book in the original language when they already have it translated. Try out a new writer with ebooks, and buy the pbook if they enjoyed the work. It would also be easier to buy books as presents.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Dream on. Small book retailers are increasingly a thing of the past in the US. They can't match the buying power and pricing of the big chains, and can't match the big chains on price. They ones still around are specialty stores targeting niche markets.

This would be the publishers doing. Obviously the small retailers can't match the prices of the bigger ones. They don't get the same deal on the books. But if the publisher only uses big retailers, then they effectively sell all books half-price. So the "value" that the book has for them is half the "value" that it has for the person who ends up buying it.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

You won't, and why should they? The market for print editions of PD books, in hardcover or paperback, is a niche market. Some houses address it, and some don't. But the money made from it is unlikely to be any significant fraction of their total revenue. It's small potatoes in the larger scheme of things.

Won't what? Comment? I just did. And you didn't contradict me on the fact that they make more profit then they do with new authors. Does that mean that you agree?
These books will not bring the revenues that the gold mines bring, but they can bring a steady profit.

But the part about the manufacturing price is really interesting.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Who told you hardcovers don't cost all that much more to make? "Trade paperbacks" exist to provide a cheaper edition than the hardcover, because there are costs in hardcover binding.

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Did you miss the fact that I quoted you? You say that it costs $1 more to manufacture a HC, and since the other costs are the same, it would mean that HC would cost $1 more to make than the PB. To me $1 difference means that it doesn't cost that much more to make.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

No, I was wrong in the last post. Subsequently I checked back. Better numbers are the ones I mention above, from someone in book production, in the context of a discussion of pricing.

Just so I'm clear about your way of thinking:
1. You read my post that said that HC don't cost that much more to make.
2. You see the fact that I quoted you for that statement.
3. You realize that your initial statement was wrong.
4. You decide to reply with "Who told you hardcovers don't cost all that much more to make?"

[alecE]

I'll accept that there's grounds for debate on the actual costs of ebook production. Given that what I want to buy is the electronic equivalent of a pbook, I'll settle for a price that is comparable with the paperback. BUT WHAT REALLY Ts ME OFF is the additional restriction of DRM plus the wretched imposition of geo restriction with no sign that the publishers are willing to change their 19th century ways. The net effects of the publishers' practices, for me, have been:
- loss of c. £30 per month ebook purchasing;
- some downloading from the darknet;
- a *lot* of format-shifting; many of the titles being ones I already own, so no new purchase there, the others being 2nd-hand purchases.

Until I can perceive that I *am* getting value for my purchase, I'm going to restrict my buying. Sadly DRM & geo restriction lower my perception of the intrinsic value I'm being asked to pay for.

[Polyglot27]

Perhaps a comparison with the film industry is more relevant than the comparison with the music industry. A certain time after a film is released in the cinemas, the DVD of the film is put on sale in the shops. In the publishing world, if a hardback sells well, the paperback version comes out and often the hardback is remaindered (sold at half price or less in discount book shops). DVDs of old films can be had for only a fraction of the original price and no one complains.
Now, if an ebook version of a book is discounted after a certain period of time has elapsed after the first edition, the publisher would not be losing money but would have the advantage of retaining control of the title. The reader would not have to buy second hand copies where the publisher does not get anything, but buy the electronic version since there will be no mailing costs and the download is instantaneous. The advantage to users is that a book will never have to go out of print or out of stock.
All this is maybe just more wishful thinking.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Most of whom will fail, and readers will be left with a real challenge in finding anything worth reading. The industry is already schisming into a thousand ebook and POD publishers. How many of those outfits do you think are making money? More important, how many of the authors being published that way are making any money (where "any money" is more than "a couple of beers now and then".)
______
Dennis

I agree with this. The publishing industry is already fragmenting into hundreds (literally) of indie and self-publishing entities. How can this be healthy for the industry? Unless most are hobbies and short-term interests.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The problem is, that statement is largely true. One of the pressures publishers are under is that many are units of larger outfits, with an expected contribution to the parent's revenue and profit. They are expected to make a 10% return on investment minimum. Good luck. Historically, publishing's returns have been maybe half that.

Certainly not all mergers or acquisitions are successful, regardless of what the bankers tell you. This is a problem for the acquirers, and they are trying to make it a problem for the consumer.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Value has nothing to do with cost. If the buyer buys a print edition of a PD work, it's worth it to them, or they wouldn't have bought it.

That's what I've been trying to tell you. There is a price point at which there will be a happy price medium between sales and profit.

Push the price higher than that medium and sales and profits drop, and piracy increases.

Methinks ebooks are not worth as much as hard covers (and not even as much as mass market paperbacks), because of DRM and the current poor quality of presentation. And I think there are a lot like me out there.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Hardcovers cost more to manufacture than paperbacks (and paperbacks exist to be a cheaper alternative). But in most cases, I think buyers buying hardcovers are paying the premium to read the book now instead of waiting for the PB edition. The fact that it's a hardcover is secondary.

Not necessarily true for all. I personally buy hard covers because I much prefer reading a well-laid out book, which I can keep forever on my bookshelf. Again, I am not the only one -- just look at all the classics being re-released in hard cover.

The bottom line is, the technology has changed, and so the business model must change.

It doesn't matter how much publishers whine, they have to either adapt or perish.

I don't think publishing is dead, but some of today's large players will be. A few will adapt, and there will be a consolidation of the small epublishers in a few years.

That's how business has always worked, and I don't see it changing because you or a few publishers don't like it.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Dead easy. You don't have to buy the book.

When I was a child, I learned that I couldn't have everything I wanted. As an adult, I learned to prioritize and make choices. Since I can't have everything I want, what do I want most and what am I willing to pass up?

So it is with books. I can't have all the books I want. Not only do I not have enough money to buy them; I don't have the time to read them if I could buy them. So when I go book shopping, I keep time as well as money in mind, and buy what I most want to read now. I may pass on a book because the price is more than I want to pay, but I don't feel I'm being gouged.

They are free to publish at whatever price they choose. I am free to decline to buy at that price. If enough buyers are willing to buy at their price, they make their target numbers, and have no particular reason to cut the price for me. So it goes. I don't take it personally, and don't feel like I'm getting shafted, because I'm not.

Discounts are used by retailers to attract traffic. They hope to make other sales to people who come in the get the discounted item, or to make up what they lose in margin by volume and generate more total revenue and profit, or both. Not all books get discounted. Most of the stuff I buy falls into the "not discounted because we hope you'll buy it at regular price when you come in to buy the discounted title" category. I don't particularly expect discounts, don't feel entitled to them, and don't get upset if they aren't there. They are a happy circumstance, and not a matter of inherent rights.
______
Dennis

If a retailer is offering me a 30% discount for any book in the store, then I feel entitled to that discount. I don't feel entitled to have everything discounted, just the ones that are offered to me and that I could get if the publisher didn't refuse to allow it. I don't feel entitled to any discount from the publisher, but I do feel entitled to buy at a discount if the retailer wants to sell it at a discount.

And I didn't buy a book recently specifically because of that, not because I couldn't afford it or didn't have time to read it.

[Eastlondonboy]

Originally Posted by Polyglot27

Register hardware has an interesting article on book pricing policy and why it might rise in the near future. Curious that with the cost of paper, printing, warehousing, transporting, displaying, and shop space removed, e-books should still cost as much if not more than the paper version. Doesn't make sense does it?
http://www.reghardware.com/2010/11/2..._book_pricing/

This is where self-publishing gives authors an advantage and enables books to be sold cheaply, without the writer losing out on royalties. Who needs publishers?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Eastlondonboy

This is where self-publishing gives authors an advantage and enables books to be sold cheaply, without the writer losing out on royalties. Who needs publishers?

The readers and the writers that want to be read.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Eastlondonboy

This is where self-publishing gives authors an advantage and enables books to be sold cheaply, without the writer losing out on royalties. Who needs publishers?

Authors who don't want to be editors and marketing specialists. Publishers offer editing, cover creation, distribution and advertising services. And readers who don't want to wade through the digital slushpile unaided.

I'll easily admit that I don't think those are worth 90% of the cover price, and publishers will need to adjust their contract expectations to match the reality of easy digital distribution and widespread availability of freelance editing etc. But they do provide a useful set of services.

[Lemurion]

Interesting fact. Paper books cost about the same now as they did fifteen to twenty years ago. I'd be surprised if they didn't go up eventually.

When I buy a book, I'm not simply paying for format - I'm paying for content and convenience. So while I'm not willing to pay hardcover prices for most ebooks, I am willing to pay $6-8 for one, same as I would a paperback. I'd rather pay less, but I think the entertainment I get from a novel is worth that much to me.

I buy based on what I think something is worth.

[nwhitfield]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Authors who don't want to be editors and marketing specialists. Publishers offer editing, cover creation, distribution and advertising services. And readers who don't want to wade through the digital slushpile unaided.

Indeed; as mentioned, those services may not perhaps be worth quite as much as the publishing companies say, but they are certainly important. And not every author has all the other skills necessary to make the book successful.

One person wrote to me following the publication of the piece on RegHardware, saying that according to the Society of Authors, only 2-6% of published authors make enough money to make a living out of their work.

Essentially, they are writing in their free time, and have a day job to pay the bills. And for those people, it's perhaps even more vital that there is someone else to take on tasks such as editing, marketing and so forth, otherwise they'll have even less time available to write.

Perhaps cutting out publishers would enable some of those people to make enough money to write full time - but I suspect it would be an incredibly small number of them.

[ficbot]

I'm not sure its true that ebook sales will 'cannibalize' paper sales, since some people (like me) do not buy paper books. I simply don't have any more space for them. So, you sell me the ebook or you don't sell me anything, not having an ebook does not mean I will buy it in paper.

As for pricing, the two issues for me are:

1) I will not pay more to have less privileges. So, if the ebook cannot be sold to the used book store or lent to my friends, and it is infested with DRM which might prevent me from reading it on the device of my choosing, then it is worth less to me than a paper book, and I expect to pay less.

2) I do take into account what other options are available. So, if the paper book is in mass market edition for $7 at the bricks and mortar store down the street, and the ebook is $11.99, I feel justifiably ripped off over this. Since many ebooks can no longer be discounted by the retailer, this is a growing issue.

I think if the publishing industry wants to survive, it needs to understand that the end user reader is now the customer. It's not about what they want to charge, it's about what the customer will pay and if they can't produce books in a way that meets that price, they won't sell as many. I can get books from my sister, from my mom, from the library. If they play dirty and try to price gouge me (see points 1 and 2) I simply will not participate.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by nwhitfield

Indeed; as mentioned, those services may not perhaps be worth quite as much as the publishing companies say, but they are certainly important. And not every author has all the other skills necessary to make the book successful.

One person wrote to me following the publication of the piece on RegHardware, saying that according to the Society of Authors, only 2-6% of published authors make enough money to make a living out of their work.

Essentially, they are writing in their free time, and have a day job to pay the bills. And for those people, it's perhaps even more vital that there is someone else to take on tasks such as editing, marketing and so forth, otherwise they'll have even less time available to write.

Perhaps cutting out publishers would enable some of those people to make enough money to write full time - but I suspect it would be an incredibly small number of them.

Yes, very few writers do make enough to live on, but cutting out publishers would hurt the majority of them far more than it would help. Getting 10% of cover on a hundred sales is much better than 100% of cover on one sale.

When you factor in the loss of time for all the other tasks they have to do without a publisher, and the additional difficulties they face with marketing that commercially published authors don't, it's easy to see why cutting out publishers won't help authors.

The (fiction) authors who do best with self-publishing, especially self-publishing ebooks, are those who are already commercially published who use self-publishing to bring their out of print backlist to their existing fanbase. Remember, the biggest draw for any book is that the reader liked another by the same author, so having even one book currently available in the trade is a huge advantage.

Also, (and this is a general comment) before complaining about authors getting 10%, it's important to remember that in print books the publisher only gets 45% at most, and the author's 10% comes out of that.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by ficbot

I'm not sure its true that ebook sales will 'cannibalize' paper sales, since some people (like me) do not buy paper books. I simply don't have any more space for them. So, you sell me the ebook or you don't sell me anything, not having an ebook does not mean I will buy it in paper.

As for pricing, the two issues for me are:

1) I will not pay more to have less privileges. So, if the ebook cannot be sold to the used book store or lent to my friends, and it is infested with DRM which might prevent me from reading it on the device of my choosing, then it is worth less to me than a paper book, and I expect to pay less.

2) I do take into account what other options are available. So, if the paper book is in mass market edition for $7 at the bricks and mortar store down the street, and the ebook is $11.99, I feel justifiably ripped off over this. Since many ebooks can no longer be discounted by the retailer, this is a growing issue.

I think if the publishing industry wants to survive, it needs to understand that the end user reader is now the customer. It's not about what they want to charge, it's about what the customer will pay and if they can't produce books in a way that meets that price, they won't sell as many. I can get books from my sister, from my mom, from the library. If they play dirty and try to price gouge me (see points 1 and 2) I simply will not participate.

But your not buying paper editions is the definition of "cannabilizing sales". You're not buying both the paper edition and the ebook editon you're only buying ebooks.

I heard Lou Gerstner (former CEO of IBM) speak years ago. He was talking about how IBM had lost the WINTEL server market share to Compaq not because they didn't have the technology advantage, but because they refused to deploy it in the low end server market. They were afraid that if they did they would lose the high margin sales of their UNIX and mainframe servers. They had developed RAID technology and hot plug drives but they let Compaq bring it to the low end servers first. I believe that Mr Gerstner said, "We learned that if you don't eat your own children someone else will."

Companies that think they are large enough to control the consumers learn the hard way. Companies that think they can callude on price to raise prices will learn the hard way. Especially with electronic goods. Consumers can just get it for free.