Kindle Scribe

[Quoth]

Really it would be better if you could simply copy a PDF, no conversion. This is why I don't have Scribe. It's stupidity.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Really it would be better if you could simply copy a PDF, no conversion. This is why I don't have Scribe. It's stupidity.

You can copy a PDF if you wanted to. You avoid the cloud, especially Amazon's anyway.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

You can copy a PDF if you wanted to. You avoid the cloud, especially Amazon's anyway.

I can, and annotate it, and copy it back, all without internet. But can you on a Scribe?

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Really it would be better if you could simply copy a PDF, no conversion. This is why I don't have Scribe. It's stupidity.

It's consistent with their platform approach. I'm only surprised that it's taking this long to get it working better, given Amazon's resources, and the way they have positioned Scribe.

I didn't get a Scribe to read, much less mark up PDFs (I don't have many PDFs to begin with), so I don't care if it is real PDF or not. But they have failed to deliver anything like equivalent functionality to date.

Even so, I'm delighted with mine. It's a 95% full glass for me. When they get this working better it will be icing on the cake. And water under the bridge, etc.

When I discover what prevents my PDF from converting, we'll have a way to send a PDF without a wire, at least temporarily.

I suspect it has to do with the size of the TOC it is trying to create in the converted document. I had similar issue converting an ePub with a large TOC. Seems like you can only have a a hundred or so (or maybe it is 7 bit, has to be less than 128!).

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by Quoth

I can, and annotate it, and copy it back, all without internet. But can you on a Scribe?

Sure you can. It is even better than embedded in the PDF itself as it is a text file with just your annotations.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by tomsem

I didn't get a Scribe to read, much less mark up PDFs (I don't have many PDFs to begin with), so I don't care if it is real PDF or not. But they have failed to deliver anything like equivalent functionality to date.

If not for reading or PDFs, what did you initially get the Scribe for? I got mine mainly for reading, especially textbook style books.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

If not for reading or PDFs, what did you initially get the Scribe for? I got mine mainly for reading, especially textbook style books.

I got a good deal: got $75 for an Oasis I didn't like, a 20% discount, and purchased when it was on sale back in January. Came to less than $200.

I thought it was going to be 'too big' but I haven't read on any of my other Kindles since I got it. It is too big to go everywhere like smaller Kindles but I am doing very little of going anywhere.

And it's fantastic for doing crossword puzzles and sudoku, and the writing experience is the same. Also things I didn't get one for.

My expectation now is that they'll get Print Replica working (both for converted PDF and Store content). But it is something to look forward to, not part of purchase decision.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

Sure you can. It is even better than embedded in the PDF itself as it is a text file with just your annotations.

Really? Text? There is no Handwriting recognition. Also how do you select a highlight and add a keyboard text note on an image based (i.e. Scan with no OCR layer) PDF.

How to you add a note on a directly copied PDF with a pen, like an arrow or circle an object, or sketch/handwriting annotating a manual's diagram or textbook's equation? Those need to be added to the PDF.

I've a PW3, recently had an Oasis, have a KK3 and a DXG. I can highlight & annotate (with real text) on a mobi or azw3, but not any of my PDFs. I'd understood you have to send a PDF to Amazon and download a Print Replica KFX to add pen (handwritten or scribbles) annotation, and then send to Amazon again to get an email back into the PC. I have no Kindle App on the PC. There are multiple issues with that PDF work flow.

I have approximately three sorts of PDF:
1) Exact files to be uploaded for POD. They need viewed and pen annotation, no computer readable text needed. But the annotated PDF needs to be transferred back to PC. The actual content is first proofed & annotated till polished as an ebook (used to be azw3, but now is epub), so computer readable text is never needed.
2) Operation Manuals, service manuals, data sheets. They need viewed and sometimes pen annotation, no computer readable text needed. But the annotated PDF needs to be transferred back to PC.
3) Scans of old books to read because there is no paper or ebook version available. They are only read.

Actual ebooks are only ever highlighted/annotated (if at all) with real text. I use the touch keyboard as it's never much text per note. Those are copied back to PC and pasted into a multi-tab plain text editor. The Kobo is far better than the Kindle for ebook management and annotations via Calibre. I used the PW3 for a while.

Note that handwriting is not text. Only content that can paste / copy / insert into a plain text editor is text.

I'd never pre-order anything. I waited to see people's real experience of the Scribe. Despite the issues with my Kindles and the broken nature of collections and especially series on it, I was almost sure I'd buy a Scribe. Tomsem's posts on it have been the most off-putting.

I think now I'll wait for something better. I have the Elipsa and it convinced me to buy a Sage (I already had a Libra and 7.8″ Likebook Mars Android eInk), because I thought why would I want an 8″ ereader as well? The Elipsa Advanced notebook seemed great for writing snippets, but it was too big and heavy as a notebook (I've used A5 notebooks for years rather than A4) and too big and heavy to read epubs. The Sage, after a FW update or two has been perfect for writing, better for epub reading & annotation than the Libra or Oasis (epubs to azw3) and even manages most of the scanned book PDFs and many PDF manuals.
I'd maybe still get a Kindle Scribe if I could USB transfer a PDF of a POD, scribble on it and copy back the annotated PDF via USB (with markup on it). But it's news to me that it's possible.

However maybe next year there will be a bigger than 10.3″ at 1/2 the price of the about €900 13″ approx Boox (which is also slightly too low a resolution, the same dpi as the 227 dpi Elipsa would do though 300 dpi would be nicer).

[LDB]

Export Notes and Highlights? Scribe won't do this? I checked 3 different random books and where it should go to my highlights and then I could export them it says something about popular notes. I can't even see a list of my notes and highlights. That is a HUGE downgrade. Did I just randomly pick the wrong 3 books and book 4 will work? Or is this a huge screw-up by Amazon?

[tomsem]

So I tried importing the 'problem' PDF to Kindle Create. It complains that 'We were unable to import the bookmarks from your Kindle project'. This PDF had a multi level set of bookmarks. I flattened it, but it still complained and failed to import.

Then I noticed that when creating ToC entry in Kindle Create it shows '0/100', as if you can only create 100 TOC entries. Sure enough, I restored the levels and removed bookmarks so it was less than 100. It now imports without error, and levels are preserved. Send to Kindle is happy with it as well, and the conversion to Print Replica was successful.

So yes: this is pretty lame. But as we are stuck with it, better to know how to work with it (and please feel free to join me in complaining about it to Amazon -- I used the feedback feature in Kindle Create).

And we have a way to keep the conversion from happening and getting it to send PDF to Scribe wirelessly, should that be desirable.

I've been working on a Python script to automate the adding of PDF page links to Contents and Index entries, & add bookmarks for start of sections if they are missing. Might as well add feature to 'prevent conversion to Print Replica by adding bookmarks' to my backlog.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by tomsem

So I tried importing the 'problem' PDF to Kindle Create. It complains that 'We were unable to import the bookmarks from your Kindle project'. This PDF had a multi level set of bookmarks. I flattened it, but it still complained and failed to import.

Then I noticed that when creating ToC entry in Kindle Create it shows '0/100', as if you can only create 100 TOC entries. Sure enough, I restored the levels and removed bookmarks so it was less than 100. It now imports without error, and levels are preserved. Send to Kindle is happy with it as well, and the conversion to Print Replica was successful.

So yes: this is pretty lame. But as we are stuck with it, better to know how to work with it (and please feel free to join me in complaining about it to Amazon -- I used the feedback feature in Kindle Create).

And we have a way to keep the conversion from happening and getting it to send PDF to Scribe wirelessly, should that be desirable.

I've been working on a Python script to automate the adding of PDF page links to Contents and Index entries, & add bookmarks for start of sections if they are missing. Might as well add feature to 'prevent conversion to Print Replica by adding bookmarks' to my backlog.

That is weird. KF8 doesn't have that problem for reflowable books with only allowing 100 TOC entries, nested as well. And non print replica KFX can, too, I think.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

That is weird. KF8 doesn't have that problem for reflowable books with only allowing 100 TOC entries, nested as well. And non print replica KFX can, too, I think.

I think this is a Print Replica thing only.

However, I have not yet figured out why Send to Kindle rejected Complete Works of H G Wells in ePub format, and I suspect it ran into some other arbitrary ToC limit (it has over 2000 entries, any bets on whether they thought 1000 was enough?). Kindle Create didn't complain about it and has a completely different workflow for creating ToC.

I've just sent 2 versions to Send to Kindle: one with ToC truncated just below 2000, another below 1000. It took the service quite some time to process this book before (35-40 minutes).

[Update: the <1000 converted, the <2000 was rejected. 1500...FAIL. 1249: success]

[LDB]

So the Scribe will export notes and highlights, it just takes a few more steps through different icons/menu than the Oasis. Wonder what other unbroken things I'll find that they "fixed".

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by LDB

So the Scribe will export notes and highlights, it just takes a few more steps through different icons/menu than the Oasis. Wonder what other unbroken things I'll find that they "fixed".

Yes.

The differences are:

* For reflow able content, Notes, Highlights, and Sticky Notes get exported with Share icon instead of Export Notes. There is an additional option, Share via email. And it is the same number of taps to perform Quick send as it is for Export Notes. But yes, instead of a text attachment it sends a link to a PDF, probably because Sticky Notes cannot be reduced to a text file. Workaround for text: use another Kindle or the Kindle app; some things are possible at read.amazon.com, depending on browser/plugins etc. (Feature request: text-only export)

* For converted PDFs (Print Replica) you can only create Pen annotations, there is no way to create Notes or Highlights or Sticky Notes, export consists of a 'flat' PDF with images of the pages and your annotations. It works as currently designed and there's no comparison with other Kindle to be had. As with reflow able content, you tap Share icon which gives the two options (Quick send and Share via email). Hopefully the annotation and export features will improve with future updates but that is the situation now.

* For side loaded PDFs (or PDF documents created prior to Scribe ship date, or PDF documents that fail to convert to Print Replica), you can create highlights and notes, but there is no built in export apart from the Your Clippings log file, exactly the same as other Kindles.

[astirling]

I’m thinking about buying the scribe. My note taking requirements are pretty basic. What I really need to know is whether or not there’s any way of viewing the handwritten notes on my Mac. I essentially want them on screen so that I can then type them up into something I can use for work.

Does the mac kindle app let me view my handwritten notes. Or is there a kindle web app which can show them?

Also…I understand the device sleeps pretty quickly. Is there any way of continuing to show the current note on screen when it sleeps? Or at the very least, does waking the device take you back to where you were before the device went into sleep mode?