Amazon removed books from my Kindle

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by slm

If I have been reading this thread correctly, that is incorrect--they are removing content that the user has marked as Amazon content but Amazon does not show as Amazon content.

It is still not their business to remove any content from anyone's personal device.

[nabsltd]

Originally Posted by slm

If I have been reading this thread correctly, that is incorrect--they are removing content that the user has marked as Amazon content but Amazon does not show as Amazon content.

Just because an e-book on a Kindle has metadata that matches some metadata at Amazon does not mean the book is "Amazon content".

[DiapDealer]

Please. Do people really believe they should accept NO responsibility for trying to trick Amazon into believing some of their content came from Amazon when it didn't? Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a big deal, but just own it already. Everyone from Amazon to their customers are playing a game to try and thwart each other's sense of "what should be allowed." There are no innocents or devils in this tête-à-tête. Just players wanting to win.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by nabsltd

Just because an e-book on a Kindle has metadata that matches some metadata at Amazon does not mean the book is "Amazon content".

The file was crafted specifically to trick the Kindle firmware into treating it like an Amazon supplied book. It does not seem reasonable to expect the Kindle firmware to know that it isn't.


Edit: Ninja'd

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The file was crafted specifically to trick the Kindle firmware into treating it like an Amazon supplied book. It does not seem reasonable to expect the Kindle firmware to know that it isn't.

IMO Amazon should never, ever mess with any content on users' devices without explicit action on the user's part (unless the item in question is a loan). Just as they managed for more than a decade before this current mess started. I don't much care whether it's intentional or a bug; it just shouldn't happen.

[DiapDealer]

And Amazon's customers should never, ever violate the ToS they agreed to. Yada, yada, yada. I don't much care whether it's harmless or not; it just shouldn't happen.

It's ridiculous to me that companies like Amazon and others are expected to adhere to some 1950s, universal, the-customer-is-always-right, uni-corny code of ethics, while their millions of customers are free to lie, cajole, and cheat their way into getting whatever they want--just so long as they can justify it with their own personal, philosophical, (and utterly non-relevant) rules they choose to do business by. Goose/Gander folks. Lying to Amazon that you live in another country so you can buy things that aren't available to you in yours isn't a hell of a lot different than the things Amazon does to you that make you angry. Same with removing DRM you said you wouldn't (regardless how harmless), or trying to get around behavior on devices that are running firmware determined not to let you make those end runs. You don't like the vegetables being served? Take yourself to another restaurant.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

IMO Amazon should never, ever mess with any content on users' devices without explicit action on the user's part (unless the item in question is a loan). Just as they managed for more than a decade before this current mess started. I don't much care whether it's intentional or a bug; it just shouldn't happen.

It could well be that when the sever and the kindle compare states they conclude that the user went to whatever the manage content and devices page is called this week and marked that book to be deleted from that device. An easy way to implement that request is to remove that book from the list of books on that device. No need to have lists of pending requests and protocols to handle them.

There is a long history of such strategies. Many OS handle file deletions by removing the directory entry and marking the storage blocks as available.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

It could well be that when the sever and the kindle compare states they conclude that the user went to whatever the manage content and devices page is called this week and marked that book to be deleted from that device. An easy way to implement that request is to remove that book from the list of books on that device. No need to have lists of pending requests and protocols to handle them.

There is a long history of such strategies. Many OS handle file deletions by removing the directory entry and marking the storage blocks as available.

You may be right, of course.

Actually I don't even remember what the EBOK tag was for and why it was necessary - something to do with covers not showing? No idea, it's been more than a decade since it was discussed in detail, and I no longer have a modern Kindle to test things.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

IMO Amazon should never, ever mess with any content on users' devices without explicit action on the user's part (unless the item in question is a loan). Just as they managed for more than a decade before this current mess started. I don't much care whether it's intentional or a bug; it just shouldn't happen.

The files in question literally say "Yes, that's right, I'm an Amazon store file! Please treat me like one!" by having the EBOK metadata set. How else is Amazon supposed to know that that it really isn't if the file lies outright?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

The files in question literally say "Yes, that's right, I'm an Amazon store file! Please treat me like one!" by having the EBOK metadata set. How else is Amazon supposed to know that that it really isn't if the file lies outright?

As I said, they should not do anything unless the user initiates the action. They managed that well enough for many years.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jhowell

The file was crafted specifically to trick the Kindle firmware into treating it like an Amazon supplied book. It does not seem reasonable to expect the Kindle firmware to know that it isn't.


Edit: Ninja'd

Do you happen to know if I was to take an ePub and run it through Kindlegen and then slit out the KF8 version and side load that, would that get removed? Would I lose any features vs an Amazon downloaded eBook?

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

As I said, they should not do anything unless the user initiates the action. They managed that well enough for many years.

The user initiated it by loading files that say they "are" Amazon Store files.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Frogm4n

The user initiated it by loading files that say they "are" Amazon Store files.

Not that. I mean Amazon should not delete files unless the user has explicitly deleted them either from Content & Devices or from the device. Amazon should not try to guess the user's intention, or what should/should not exist on the device.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by slm

they are removing content that the user has marked as Amazon content but Amazon does not show as Amazon content

This does not make it Amazon content. Any flags that are being set are to control how the Kindle handles the content. That's taking advantage of a Kindle feature/design element. The reason to set the flag is to get desirable behavior from the Kindle. Nothing wrong or illegal about doing that. And it most definitely does not transfer ownership of the content to Amazon. Amazon would be pretty presumptuous to think that.

[Frogm4n]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Not that. I mean Amazon should not delete files unless the user has explicitly deleted them either from Content & Devices or from the device. Amazon should not try to guess the user's intention, or what should/should not exist on the device.

And how, exactly, is Amazon to know that the files that were loaded with faked metadata are *not* actually corrupted Kindle store files that need to be cleaned up? The whole idea that Amazon should ignore files that the Kindle is told "are" Kindle store files is silly.