New Kindle Voyage

[soulfuldog]

The margin settings on the Kindle are only poor in that they could maybe do away with the widest margin setting and give another option for smaller margins instead. I can't imagine anyone would use the largest setting, it just looks so bizarre?

That apart, I use the small margin setting and am perfectly happy with it. The ability to add custom fonts would be a nice addition, even though I'd probably not bother using it.

The screen on the Voyage does look nice.... my PW2 is just fine though, unless it meets with an 'accident' I'll be resisting the temptation!

[seanwhat]

Originally Posted by GoSharks

However, Amazon could make everyone happy (including themselves) by simply selling additional 'font packs'. I would likely pay $5 to have an additional font that I liked and not have to hack my reader or strip and embed my books.

Or they could charge an extra $80 for a higher end kindle model which, among other premium features, includes extra font sets.

This is 2014 and they can't sort out simple software features like margins, fonts, hyphenation etc. even on their 'premium' model? Why? It's not like the software is in it's infancy, they're clearly aware of these issues, they're just choosing not to bother.

They're just... behind. Like a lot of people, I was hoping they'd have ironed these things in the new models, but instead they've been working on other software features which, although very good, aren't the simple things people were asking for.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by soondai

Golly that is about as pedantic as it gets.

I didn't find what Harry said to be pedantic. I did suspect, however, that evanft felt he'd already implied Harry's point -- that deeper margin controls were important to him but not necessarily to everyone -- and that people who read evanft's post probably inferred as much.

Still, I've watched sentiments like evan's devolve on threads as innocuous as this one until the end result seemed to be group therapy for the bitter.

That bleated, I think we can make a distinction between features that are important/valid and ones that stop vast hordes from buying Kindles. It's possible that a huge number of people who buy Kindles for other reasons might enjoy having access to deeper layout controls as well (baseline, leading, kerning, tracking, margins, fonts, etc.). If so, then I can see why Amazon might view the absence of such controls as a "problem." The idea is to make each successive Kindle better and to appeal to even more consumers. Deeper margin and layout controls could be seen as another step toward that aim.

I understand Harry's point about users getting into trouble installing broken fonts and subsequently martyring customer service, but is it likely that the majority of users would bother tinkering with sideloaded font files? Wouldn't they be more inclined to fiddle with whatever controls, options and fonts were on the device already?

I've never heard anyone complain about having margin control on Kobo devices. I've only ever heard people complain about margin glitches (voracious headers, footers and page numbers, gaping paragraph breaks, etc.).

[twowheels]

Originally Posted by GoSharks

On the other hand, my pet peeve has got to be the lack of hyphenations. Would it kill Amazon to render hyphenations?! No extra work, no chance of breaking, no increase in customer support....really Amazon?

No extra work?!?!

I love when people at my workplace tell me that implementing a feature is trivially easy.

Funny thing is they often assume that the hardest features are trivial and the most trivial are very hard.


EDIT: I can see it now... Amazon implements a "very simple" version of hyphenation which occasionally splits the word incorrectly and armchair programmers scream about how simple of a problem is, why couldn't they get it right?!? It's a fatal flaw that makes their device look second-rate!

[GoSharks]

Originally Posted by twowheels

No extra work?!?!

I love when people at my workplace tell me that implementing a feature is trivially easy.

Funny thing is they often assume that the hardest features are trivial and the most trivial are very hard.


EDIT: I can see it now... Amazon implements a "very simple" version of hyphenation which occasionally splits the word incorrectly and armchair programmers scream about how simple of a problem is, why couldn't they get it right?!? It's a fatal flaw that makes their device look second-rate!

I'm sure our own ixtab would be happy to let Amazon's lab126 use his JBPatch hack for free (actually, they probably already have it as they have successfully done everything they can to stifle it). I guess the most rigorous part of the reprogramming they would need to do is the yes/no in settings as to whether one wanted to use hyphenations. Considering many of the other software additions of dubious value that they have implemented, yes I do think this would be trivial.

Edit- I guess what I'm trying to say is that hyphenations software has already been coded and works well. They wouldn't need to reinvent the wheel (sorry, couldn't resist )

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by seanwhat

Or they could charge an extra $80 for a higher end kindle model which, among other premium features, includes extra font sets.

This is 2014 and they can't sort out simple software features like margins, fonts, hyphenation etc. even on their 'premium' model? Why? It's not like the software is in it's infancy, they're clearly aware of these issues, they're just choosing not to bother.

They're just... behind. Like a lot of people, I was hoping they'd have ironed these things in the new models, but instead they've been working on other software features which, although very good, aren't the simple things people were asking for.

I don't get the font thing either. I had a story in Greek (with Greek characters) up for sale for probably 3 years. Hmm. No, it was more like 5 years. Anyway, the short story displayed fine from what I was told (I don't read Greek). I went through a lot of hassle to make sure it looked okay. Now it isn't as though I sold oodles of the story, but a few folks bought it and it was a nice boutique item to have.

At some point a few months ago, Amazon noticed it was in Greek (It clearly. CLEARLY stated so in the TITLE). So they pulled it for "unsupported characters." There is bound to be font upon font that displays just fine and doesn't even require tweaking on their part (including the Greek alphabet). So why NOT offer more fonts? It makes no sense at all. None.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

The bezel is the margin.

The margin has more reason to be there than just a place to put you fingers on for grabbing. For reading the margin helps finding the next line after reaching the end of the last. Some paperbacks with their tiny margins - especially in the middle - make it harder to read than the more elegant looking hardcovers. It is still possible to read - and if it stops you from buying a Kindle, then by all means buy a different ereader.

[ApK]

Just an observation:

I have heard many people say that ereaders have saved their reading life because their eyes are getting bad, and without the ability to make the text larger,they would have been cut off from many paper books.

I have heard some people say that some physical condition made holding large books, or turning pages painful, and without a thin, light ereader, they'd have been cut off from many paper books.

I have never heard anyone say they would have been cut off from many paper books because they just couldn't handle the size publishers make the margins!

Not that it might not be an important, deal-breaking feature for some, and that's totally legit, but please understand the context when you talk about 'critical issues' and 'glaring faults.'

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

I use my kindle with the margins at the thinnest and the lines the widest, that's perfect for me as I hate it when lines are too close. I've never had an issue on the kindle for those settings, I'd just like better font choice.

The margins culd be much closer and still not be too close. On a PW2, the wasted space is 40px at 758px wide. And on a Kindle Touch, the margin waste is -30px at 600px wide. 1/2 of the current margin waste would look much better.

As for the line-height, I don't see why KF8 has to be so large. Why can't they be smaller? leave the current line-height as one of the settings, but also give smaller line height.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, it's not pedantic at all. There's a significant difference between a "glaring fault" and a personal preference. Eg, many Onyx T68's (but not mine, thankfully) spontaneously reboot at low battery levels: that's a fault. Not liking the margin settings on the Kindle is simply a personal preference.

Just because a lot of people overlook the wide margins and large line-height, doesn't mean that it's not a glaring fault which it is. When Amazon released the iOS Kindle app, the glaring fault with the margins was even more noticeable because of the iPhone's narrow screen. That meant less text and if you wanted larger text, even less text on screen and the margins become even more of a problem.

Mobi doesn't have the line-height issue that KF8 has. So why have it? Why not have a more reasonable line-height? You can get a lot more text on screen with comfortable settings that aren't silly and will work better for more people then what we have now.

The settings I use are not typical. I'm fine with that. But I could change the margins and the line-height slightly and I think you'd find a lot of people would not mind at all.

It comes down to the fact that the Kindle is very inflexible when it cones to how the eBook looks. The margin settings beyond the smallest are worthless and the line-height setting beyond the smallest are also worthless. make those larger settings smaller and they might get used.

Margins, make the current smallest as the largest, the smallest make that at 1/4th the current smallest and the next up 1/2 the current smallest. Same with line-height and things would be so much more customizable for many more people.

[JSWolf]

As for fonts, one of the WORST decisions Amazon could ever have made is to have publisher fonts turned off by default. If an eBook needs to have embedded fonts, then they should be displayed and the Reader can experiment with turning them off if so desired.

The only real way to handle a case like that would be to put in a page that states that the eBook uses embedded fonts and to go turn them on if your Reading device default to off.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You can get a lot more text on screen with comfortable settings that aren't silly and will work better for more people then what we have now.

And why exactly do we need to squeeze as much text on a page as possible? With current readers battery life or speed of a page turn should not be such an issue that it really matters.

I could change the margins and the line-height slightly and I think you'd find a lot of people would not mind at all.

A lot of people do not mind the way it is.

It comes down to the fact that the Kindle is very inflexible when it cones to how the eBook looks. The margin settings beyond the smallest are worthless and the line-height setting beyond the smallest are also worthless.

Worthless? Wow, did we scoop this low already? Take the widest margin setting for example. To you it is just a waste of so much screen estate, to someone else it can be the best setting since sliced bread. Who needs margins that wide? Or rather who needs text that narrow? A perfect setting if you don't want to move your eyes left and right. Can I personally read like that? No, and I am not interested in learning it either.

Margins, make the current smallest as the largest, the smallest make that at 1/4th the current smallest and the next up 1/2 the current smallest. Same with line-height and things would be so much more customizable for many more people.

It will only work if you add to the settings by adding a forth option - and you have the chance of confusing customers. Advanced settings? A nightmare for support. Someone will by accident get into the advanced settings, make their Kindle unusable to them, and then has to call Amazon to get it fixed. Take away a setting that has been on the Kindle since the first iteration, and you will have angry customers.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

As for fonts, one of the WORST decisions Amazon could ever have made is to have publisher fonts turned off by default.

That is again a very personal problem of yours. I, myself, would hate if ebooks with publisher fonts automatically enable those (and worse books that don't allow fonts to change). I rather it just looks like any other book does that is being read. Some books have really butt-ugly and unusable fonts embedded when it comes to the low res displays. Ready Player One publisher font, for example, does not render nice on the PW - too many small thin lines that tear apart. For that font even the 212 ppi of the PW is not nearly enough.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

And why exactly do we need to squeeze as much text on a page as possible? With current readers battery life or speed of a page turn should not be such an issue that it really matters.

Because it looks better. I never said anything about battery or page turn speed.

A lot of people do not mind the way it is.

While a lot of people don't exactly mind, a lot would like more options to have smaller margins and lesser line height.

Worthless? Wow, did we scoop this low already? Take the widest margin setting for example. To you it is just a waste of so much screen estate, to someone else it can be the best setting since sliced bread. Who needs margins that wide? Or rather who needs text that narrow? A perfect setting if you don't want to move your eyes left and right. Can I personally read like that? No, and I am not interested in learning it either.

Yes, worthless. 100% worthless. Some books would just be a total nightmare to try to read at such a setting. I bet the percentage of people who like that setting would be less then 1.

It will only work if you add to the settings by adding a forth option - and you have the chance of confusing customers. Advanced settings? A nightmare for support. Someone will by accident get into the advanced settings, make their Kindle unusable to them, and then has to call Amazon to get it fixed. Take away a setting that has been on the Kindle since the first iteration, and you will have angry customers.

I'm not talking about any sort of advanced settings. I'm talking taking the setting that are there and changing them so those that like things as they are with the current smallest margins and the current line height can still have them and those that want smaller can also have them too.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

That is again a very personal problem of yours. I, myself, would hate if ebooks with publisher fonts automatically enable those (and worse books that don't allow fonts to change). I rather it just looks like any other book does that is being read. Some books have really butt-ugly and unusable fonts embedded when it comes to the low res displays. Ready Player One publisher font, for example, does not render nice on the PW - too many small thin lines that tear apart. For that font even the 212 ppi of the PW is not nearly enough.

I'm not talking about taking away the option to turn off publisher fonts, I'm talking about defaulting to on when there are embedded fonts. Some eBooks need to have the fonts on in order to work properly. Like using special characters or achieving a certain look (like [/i]11/22/63[/i] (which works very well with the embedded fonts)). Yes, sometimes the embedded fonts are not all that good and in that case, turn them off. But they should be on by default so people can choose for themselves. I would think not that many people would check for publisher fonts and could have a sub-optimal reading experience because of this.