Windows 10 - free upgrade to those with PC using Windows 7 or 8

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

A lot of those support demands are created by how Linux users end up using Windows, which makes Windows seem more problematic than it actually is.

One thing that makes Windows look bad from the perspective of a Linux user who dual boots is the system update process.

Since I don't dual-boot (or use Windows in a virtual machine) and since none of my kids or my wife use Linux at all -- this doesn't really apply to me.

These are the kind of things that drive me nuts on Windows. I have a network printer/scanner and have been using it for a couple years on WiFi. Since the printer is now near my main router I figured I would just connect it via an Ethernet cable and disable WiFi. I kept the same static IP address, just changed how it connected to the router from WiFi to Ethernet. I tested it on my Linux Mint computer -- no issues. Job done ... or so I thought. Windows 7 didn't like it and wouldn't print. Why? I have NO idea. So I tried changing the port in the printer driver -- two or three times. Even though the IP address was right, the printer would not work? I finally downloaded the printer driver and reloaded the whole thing again ... which (since Windows' printers are huge for some reason) took about 45 minutes. Then I had to re-download the bundled OCR software (PaperPort) because changing the printer driver somehow confused that software. I'm just getting too old for this crap. That's why I like the straight forward simplicity of Linux. I'm trying to get my kids to work on the Windows computers -- I don't need the aggravation.

Originally Posted by Jack Torrance

I'm thinking a sense of humour is lacking in a few posters.

I understand eschwartz's sense of humour. Yours, perhaps I'm misreading.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Given widespread opinion on the matter of humour, outside of the forum, it would be a very great surprise if you did not .

True that. 'twould be a funny world if we were all the same. Boring too, not to mention distinctly surreal.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

It is amazing how many Windows users are positively curious to know whether Android users are linux users.

Actually, we all know. What we're curious about is how it is you don't.

I crack me up.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rcentros

No, I mean you have to worry about anti-virus and anti-malware software (updating and upkeep) and issues with the Registry (cleaning out the cruft, etc). And there's also issues with upgrading all the applications (Flash, Java, Adobe, etc.) -- all done with one command in Linux Mint. My father used Windows until a few years ago. It was a pain to support him (I'm 600 miles away) -- when he moved to Linux Mint those issues went away.

Do you know how easy it is to remote access a Windows based computer to update it? Doesn't matter how far away you are.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

No, I mean you have to worry about anti-virus and anti-malware software (updating and upkeep) and issues with the Registry (cleaning out the cruft, etc). And there's also issues with upgrading all the applications (Flash, Java, Adobe, etc.) -- all done with one command in Linux Mint. My father used Windows until a few years ago. It was a pain to support him (I'm 600 miles away) -- when he moved to Linux Mint those issues went away.

Windows 8 onwards has an adequate AV program built in which downloads new AV definitions once a day automatically ("Windows Defender"), so no need to worry about that. Windows updates happen once a month (the second Tuesday of the month: "patch Tuesday") which doesn't need a special reboot: most people shut their computer down at the end of the day, and that's when the updates will be applied. Apps like Java, Flash, etc, auto-update and don't normally need a reboot.

With the greatest respect, I really think you're exaggerating the difficulties. If you're happy with Linux, that's great, but there are an awful lot of people who are equally happy with Windows.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Windows 8 onwards has an adequate AV program built in which downloads new AV definitions once a day automatically ("Windows Defender")

Also, Windows Security Essentials has been available for free for a long time, for use on Windows XP to Windows 7. Actually, Windows XP SP2 and newer had a background service called Windows Defender, to which Security Essentials was an extension; since Windows 8.x, Defender and Security Essentials are now integrated.

With the greatest respect, I really think you're exaggerating the difficulties. If you're happy with Linux, that's great, but there are an awful lot of people who are equally happy with Windows.

Also, many computer/OS enthusiasts (but especially Linux and Apple users) seem to forget that one does not choose their operating system. The choice should be the applications that need or want to be run.

If you need to run Photoshop and be SURE it runs (when you have a design company, for example), it would be stupid to run Linux. First, Photoshop is not available there, and there are no (official) ways to color calibrate a monitor in hardware, such as an EIZO CG/CX/SX.

If you're a gamer, or a software developer using the latest version of .NET and C#, running Windows would be a very wise choice. Also, there is a lot of software that is only available for Windows.

If you need Logic or Final Cut Pro, your only choice is a Mac, as this software is not available on other platforms.

If you need to install and maintain 500 web- and database servers, Linux or a BSD are probably your best bets, as they are operating systems built from the ground up to be run remotely, over a CLI, and you'll not have to pay or worry about a bazillion licenses.

So, first gather the applications you want to run, then pick the operating system that will run most of them, and use a different computer or virtual machines to run the rest.

First selecting your operating system and then trying to get your things done using 'alternative applications' (= not the ones you would actually need or want to use) is... often... not wise. It will create a lot of headaches.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by rcentros

These are the kind of things that drive me nuts on Windows. I have a network printer/scanner and have been using it for a couple years on WiFi. Since the printer is now near my main router I figured I would just connect it via an Ethernet cable and disable WiFi. I kept the same static IP address, just changed how it connected to the router from WiFi to Ethernet. I tested it on my Linux Mint computer -- no issues. Job done ... or so I thought. Windows 7 didn't like it and wouldn't print. Why? I have NO idea. So I tried changing the port in the printer driver -- two or three times. Even though the IP address was right, the printer would not work? I finally downloaded the printer driver and reloaded the whole thing again ... which (since Windows' printers are huge for some reason) took about 45 minutes. Then I had to re-download the bundled OCR software (PaperPort) because changing the printer driver somehow confused that software. I'm just getting too old for this crap. That's why I like the straight forward simplicity of Linux. I'm trying to get my kids to work on the Windows computers -- I don't need the aggravation.

Yeah...sounds like you're doing it wrong. Why in the world would you re-download the driver? I've done exactly what you're talking about many times, and if anything needed to be done besides just changing the properties of the port, it would be just creating a new instance of the device using the same downloaded driver.

This is what drives me crazy with these threads--people who don't know how to use Windows complaining about how horrible it is, while implying that they are somehow better than the people who don't know how to use Linux.

Shari

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Do you know how easy it is to remote access a Windows based computer to update it? Doesn't matter how far away you are.

I know how easy it is not to worry about it by using Linux Mint.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With the greatest respect, I really think you're exaggerating the difficulties. If you're happy with Linux, that's great, but there are an awful lot of people who are equally happy with Windows.

Linux security fixes usually come within hours after their discovery -- a month can be forever. I'll have to take your word for it on Defender in Windows 8.x. I know Security Essentials was often found wanting.

As for being happy with Windows -- not always. Most people really don't know they have a choice and, when perfectly good hardware starts running slowly, they buy a new PC to get that "new" speed again.

As for "exaggerating the difficulties" I brought up a concrete example of why I (personally) don't like Windows (having to reload the the whole printer driver when changing a printer from a WiFi to an Ethernet connection). I've also had to edit the Registry for failed driver installations, otherwise I couldn't try the installation again. I fully realize that I'm not a Windows tech (nor do I want to be one) but it seems to me that Microsoft puts an extra layer of "insulation" between the user and the configuration settings. Sometimes it works -- sometimes it gets in the way. I much prefer the Linux way of doing it, with simple text file configuration settings.

Personal preference. But I did choose Linux specifically because the maintenance and upkeep of Windows (and anti-virus and and anti-malware software) was too time consuming .. for me.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Also, many computer/OS enthusiasts (but especially Linux and Apple users) seem to forget that one does not choose their operating system. The choice should be the applications that need or want to be run.

Actually one can and often does choose their OS. I did. When I left Windows I found substitutes for the few programs I needed (nothing specialized). That said, if you need a specialized, niche product (like Photoshop or Final Cut) than definitely it's a matter of choosing the best platform for those applications. I would add PC gaming to this category. I don't believe in beating my head against the wall. But, as a general purpose OS, Linux should provide everything most PC users need. It does so for me.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by shalym

Yeah...sounds like you're doing it wrong. Why in the world would you re-download the driver? I've done exactly what you're talking about many times, and if anything needed to be done besides just changing the properties of the port, it would be just creating a new instance of the device using the same downloaded driver.

This is what drives me crazy with these threads--people who don't know how to use Windows complaining about how horrible it is, while implying that they are somehow better than the people who don't know how to use Linux.

I tried setting up several "instances" of the printer (as a matter of fact it's using one of the new "instances" now) -- but it still didn't work until I reloaded the driver. What drives me nuts about Windows (and Windows supporters) is that -- every time something goes wrong with the OS -- it's automatically the user's fault. It's not like I didn't Google for a fix before re-installing the printer. I really have better things to do with my life than support Windows (which I hate), so I try to figure out how to get it done as quickly as possible. And, really, just because you haven't had this problem, doesn't mean I haven't had the problem. Driver problems are not unknown in Windows.

And BTW -- to you and everyone else I'm responding to -- I'm not writing any of this to convince anyone to quit using Windows ... I'm just letting folks know one of the main reasons (there are several others) why I quit using Windows and went to Linux. If you're happy with Windows I'm happy for you.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by rcentros

I tried setting up several "instances" of the printer (as a matter of fact it's using one of the new "instances" now) -- but it still didn't work until I reloaded the driver. What drives me nuts about Windows (and Windows supporters) is that -- every time something goes wrong with the OS -- it's automatically the user's fault. It's not like I didn't Google for a fix before re-installing the printer. I really have better things to do with my life than support Windows (which I hate), so I try to figure out how to get it done as quickly as possible. And, really, just because you haven't had this problem, doesn't mean I haven't had the problem. Driver problems are not unknown in Windows.

And BTW -- to you and everyone else I'm responding to -- I'm not writing any of this to convince anyone to quit using Windows ... I'm just letting folks know one of the main reasons (there are several others) why I quit using Windows and went to Linux. If you're happy with Windows I'm happy for you.

So you're saying that all devices "just work" in Linux? Because seriously, let's ask Gregg Bell about that. There's also this by Dngrsone

Shari

Originally Posted by Katsunami

First selecting your operating system and then trying to get your things done using 'alternative applications' (= not the ones you would actually need or want to use) is... often... not wise. It will create a lot of headaches.

Yes, look at your software needs first.

On the other hand, many people do not have specialized needs. Web browsers are practically identical across platforms, particularly with the decreasing dependence upon plugins. Most users use the the basic functionality of office software, and will never touch the advanced features unless they work in a business with an IT department that sets up those features for them. Professional graphics designers will find the alternatives on Linux lacking, yet many people will discover that they can do just as much with those free substitutes. As for gaming, Linux is offering an increasing number of commercial titles. If the title exists for Windows and Mac, chances are that it exists for Linux too.

While all of that paints Linux as a lesser platform, one for people with limited needs, that is solely from the perspective of overlapping needs. Those office suite users will usually find the advanced features of open source alternatives just as powerful, but compatibility is an issue when making a switch. It also ignores uses where Linux provides the exact same software as Windows. Many fields that started out on Unix, because Wintel based systems were lacking back in the day, made the jump to Linux.

I'm not saying that people should make the jump. Clearly there are some people who cannot, or where making the jump would be a considerable effort. But guess what -- that is a big part of the reason why Microsoft has trouble getting people to upgrade between versions of their software. People didn't want to invest their time into learning the new features of Windows 8 or Office 2007. Vista had compatibility issues (justified, since they were addressing security). Even if Windows 10 fixes all of the complaints with Windows 8.x, many people are going to stay put on their existing version because it takes time to install it and it takes time to learn about the changes.

Yet the one thing I get tired of is people dismissing or outright maligning Linux because they hold Windows so dear to their heart. Windows users who complain about over zealous Linux users, without stopping to reflect upon their very similar close-minded and argumentative attitudes. Here's a hint: don't expect those Linux users to zip their lips on the topic if Windows users won't do the same.

Oh, and all of this is coming from someone who rarely uses Linux as a desktop OS these days. I've been there, I know what switching to and using open source software entails. I know it's benefits and down sides. I still use many of the acquired skills to tweak embedded systems, under OS X, and with Cygwin. Most Linux users have the same knowledge because they too have used multiple platforms. It's just difficult to express themselves when a good number of vocal users will jump down their throats for mentioning the L-word.

[dickloraine]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

.

Yet the one thing I get tired of is people dismissing or outright maligning Linux because they hold Windows so dear to their heart. Windows users who complain about over zealous Linux users, without stopping to reflect upon their very similar close-minded and argumentative attitudes. Here's a hint: don't expect those Linux users to zip their lips on the topic if Windows users won't do the same.
.

Of course the question was, why linux is discussed at all in this topic.