What does the new Kindle and its price point mean ...

[asjogren]

Graham, I think you have a point. To get what we want requires more than one eReader - because of DRM and formats and contract restrictions.

Wouldn't it be better if when we splurged on 2 eReaders - one was small and very portable and the other was a larger screen that allowed a full "page" view?

My Kindle was a Christmas gift. I think it is very good. However, I suggested to my partner that she get the Nook WiFi when it came out - because it was easier to put library books on it. She has NOT bought an eBook yet. So she reads ePubs on her Nook, and the others on her laptop. Nook is not very good for PDF unless the book was designed for a smaller page. I thought she would end up buying eBooks from B&N from time-to-time, but that has not happened.

While I don't buy many eBooks from Amazon (I have bought more from SmashWords), I do find that I look forward to a weekly Magazine subscription on my Kindle. This was actually a surprise to me.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Graham, I think you have a point. To get what we want requires more than one eReader - because of DRM and formats and contract restrictions.

That's where I am; the PB360 is my goto reader for DRM-free content, which is the bulk of my reading. My refurb K2 I got for the occasional DRM'ed title recomended by my Kindle-toting friends (with great taste).

Makes sure I'm fully covered.

As appealing as the WiFi K3 is (its ergo looks to be second only to the PB360 and the price...!) my next buy is most likely going to be a PB901 (as long as it features the same software as the PB360).

[asjogren]

Pocketbook - how about a "dual boot" series of eReaders? Boot one way to read Amazon Kindle DRM (assuming you can strike a deal with Amazon) and boot the other to read Adobe ADEPT DRM.

Not to downplay the technology challenge, but since both are a version of Linux and both run an ARM capable CPU - perhaps the biggest challenge would be contractual.

I certainly would be willing to wait a minute or two to reboot to change capabilities.

[Kameli]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Pocketbook - how about a "dual boot" series of eReaders? Boot one way to read Amazon Kindle DRM (assuming you can strike a deal with Amazon) and boot the other to read Adobe ADEPT DRM.

Not to downplay the technology challenge, but since both are a version of Linux and both run an ARM capable CPU - perhaps the biggest challenge would be contractual.

I certainly would be willing to wait a minute or two to reboot to change capabilities.

All the problem is contractual. There would be no need for dual boot or even different readers if they just allowed it.

Real solution is killing DRM. As in music or games DRM only makes life harder for those who actually buy their books. People who pirate books don't even notice DRM and I believe even buying book and then stripping DRM out of it is trivial. Only effect of DRM is that it encourages pirating since it is so much easier to pirate book than figure out if DRM of certain shop works on your reader.

[asjogren]

Yes, DRM is the problem. But, I hold no hope of getting rid of it until the existing crop of Executives at the currently Big Publishing Houses disappear.

DRM is fine with a rental model. But, only the public libraries have that at present.

In the meantime, perhaps we can help with some ideas to make the best of the existing situation. Vendors like PocketBook cannot change DRM. But, they might be adaptable enough to make the best of a bad situation and carve out a piece of this market in the process.

What could a deal between Amazon and PocketBook bring to Amazon?
- a new convenient, ultra portable form factor eReader
- a touch screen option
- legitimize a multi-vendor, multi-platform standard

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by asjogren

What could a deal between Amazon and PocketBook bring to Amazon?
- a new convenient, ultra portable form factor eReader
- a touch screen option
- legitimize a multi-vendor, multi-platform standard

An exit strategy to get out of hardware?

The Real question is what does it buy Pocketbook Global?
Enough to justify the license fee?
(The same question applies to ADE; does it bring enough business to justify the license fee?)

Its easy to float balloons; I do it all the time. Tying your business to one, though, takes serious thought.

[asjogren]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

The Real question is what does it buy Pocketbook Global?
Enough to justify the license fee?

Exactly. Only the company can make that decision. There are significant R&D costs. However, the issue of the license fee could be passed to the customer. Do you want Amazon Kindle DRM compatibility? Do you want MobiPocket DRM compatibility? Do you want Adobe ADEPT compatibility. One could be included and others are extra cost and imply multi-boot to get past licensing restrictions.

I think it is going to be difficult for PocketBook to compete on price with the giants who could use their online book sales to subsidize the eReader devices. And use their massive sales to drive down component costs.

I can only say what I would be willing to buy. Given my hypothetical 3 options, I probably would buy Amazon DRM compatibility and Adobe Adept compatibility and deal with Overdrive Mobipocket DRM another way. But, for my partner, I would recommend Adobe Adept compatibility and Overdrive Mobipocket compatibility.

If DRM were gone......

[Graham]

Does it mean we're more likely to see an Android-based eInk reader that can run the Kindle app, or less?

Graham

[asjogren]

Originally Posted by Graham

Does it mean we're more likely to see an Android-based eInk reader that can run the Kindle app, or less?

Graham

Unfortunately, that would not cover everything. Overdrive Mobipocket DRM is the first to come to my mind. Windows based eInk tablet could do everything.

What I really want, and my partner too, is an eInk "like" small device that can be on for at least a day without recharging, that can read ALL the Overdrive public library books, and also allows purchased books from *some* major, competitive eBook vendor plus Project Gutenberg. The priority is public library books.

And between our laptops, my Kindle, and her Nook we cover everything. But, not quite satisfactorily.

[Metal Mick]

Originally Posted by asjogren

What could a deal between Amazon and PocketBook bring to Amazon?
- a new convenient, ultra portable form factor eReader
- a touch screen option
- legitimize a multi-vendor, multi-platform standard

Hi everyone,

I am still new to ereaders but quite keen to get one (and was since the release of K1), and the PB 302 has a lot to offer.

However, Amazon's dominance does concern me, and this has held me back. I do not buy a lot of books, but feel my wife (who is getting a reader, once I make up my mind), may enjoy some of the free or inexpensive books on Amazon. Otherwise we will borrow library books, and our local library is increasing its ebook reserves all the time.

Perhaps I am missing something, but there were overtones of near-hysteria surrounding the K3, and this seemed... disproportionate to the use of the item.

Given that I have a Kindle app on my Android phone, it seems to me a logcal thing would be to modify this app to work on an ereader that supports apps. One of which is the PB...

I think some posters have alluded to this possibility (but if I missed a statement suggesting it, please accept my apologies), and it has merit. I could retain all the functionality of my ereader - just I retained all my phone's functionality - without the need to sacrifice anything.

What is stopping this - is it a manpower thing, or licensing, or is Amazon guarding their Kindle hardware market? One thing is certain, if the Kindle app works on my Android phone, it will work on a tablet, essentially harming the Kindle hardware sales.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just seeking information, so I can make up my mind.

Regards,

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Metal Mick

What is stopping this - is it a manpower thing, or licensing, or is Amazon guarding their Kindle hardware market? One thing is certain, if the Kindle app works on my Android phone, it will work on a tablet, essentially harming the Kindle hardware sales.

What stops it is a licensing thing more than anything else. But economies of scale and market positioning also factor into it.

It is not so much Amazon guarding their hardware business, else why offer Kindle apps for smartphones, PCs, Macs, and (as you point out) android tablets (although those are currently more of a side-effect).
Amazon has made it clear that they *don't* see the Kindle apps running on alternate hardware as a threat: they are in the ebook business more than the eReader business. Their purpose in releasing Kindle was to speed up the mainstreaming of ebooks. (And make a bit of money on the side.) And a Kindle app running on non-Kindle hardware is as much a customer "win" for Amazon as a Kindle hardware sale.

Since they are a primarily a lean-and-mean retailer of dry goods (their primary competitor is WalMart, not Sony, nor B&N, or anybody else) they generally try to control their infrastructure and supply chain. This means they run their own e-commerce datacenters (sized up for peak holiday sales and then some) and own their own technology; in the build vs buy corporate debate they *always* go with build whenever feasible. For ebooks this means that, rather than pay royalties to Adobe for using DRM'ed ePub, they went out and *bought* Mobipocket and Audible. It also means that Kindle's *first* priority is to offer a pleasant and enticing *shopping* experience. That it be a good reader (which it is) is secondary to the selling of ebooks.

This is simply how Amazon has laid out their business. It's not a matter of good or evil or greedy giant corporation versus plucky startups, as some would choose to see it. It is simply them playing their game without paying much heed to would-be competitors unless forced to it. (Like B&N just did with their recent price cut.)

Now, Amazon has publicly stated that they would license their reader app for competing ebook readers *if* they agreed to support Whispernet. Which makes sense (for Amazon) as Whispernet is central to the Kindle shopping experience. Whether it makes sense for a would-be licensee is what is uncertain/undetermined/unlikely(?) especially since the Whispernet requirement makes Adobe Adept support contractually incompatible. Also, since it appears that the economics of ebook reader manufacture *today* are tilted heavily towards Amazon and B&N (NorthAm is reported to be as much as 80% of the world eink reader market, and Kindle & Nook together control about 70% of *that*) any Kindle-compatible reader would have to operate as a "premium" reader. And in a world with iPads and Android tablets that is a very narrow slice of the market to operate in; higher than Kindle but lower than the tablets? Tricky, tricky. We can speculate but until somebod tries it we won't know if it is economically viable.

Now, as to the Kindle 3 "hysteria", that is easier to explain on three fronts.

1- K3 (and the new KDX) are the first (and so far, only) products to hit the market with the next-gen "Pearl" eink screens that offer both darker text and lighter background for significantly better contrast, especially in dimmer lighting.

2- K3 WiFi is the cheapest connected ebook reader by far. And, unlike the Nook WiFi, it is readily available outside NorthAm. (100+ countries.) It is a world reader. And it is priced transparently, world-wide. So the US$139 comes out to 109 pounds in the UK and 150 euros on the continent. These last two prices are *substantialy* lower than competing connected readers.

3- Where Kindle goes, goes the Amazon ebookstore. They not only sell readers, they sell ebooks worldwide (subject to publisher geo-restrictions). And, to add to the fun, in reaction to the Price-Fix Five's recent switch to non-competitive ebook pricing, Amazon has stepped up their already substantial in-house *publishing* operation, offering up up to a 70% royalty to authors willing to abide by Amazon's reader-friendly policies (TTS-allowed, no geo-restrictions, prices in the US$2.99-9.99 range, etc).

Add these three up and I think the reason for hysteria becomes clear, no?

You have the market leader in the largest reader market offering up the best ebook shopping experience on the best available screen at the lowest prices.

Given that way too many ebook readers now on the market offer up minimalist reader experiences (minimal typographical controls, PC app-dependent file management, unstable firmware, minimal post-sale support, etc) at substantially higher prices than Nook and Kindle it is clear that the competitive landscape has dramatically changed over the last two months.

We're already seeing competitors fall by the wayside almost weekly; Cool-er, iRex, Que, and most recently Foxit. The blood-letting started after Nook WiFi came in at US$149 but since Nook is (so far) US-only, many simply sniffed that that "was just the US" and it meant nothing to the rest of the world. With Kindle readers and ebooks available worldwide, that particullar excuse won't fly anymore. Competitors now have to justify their product in terms of its quality and qualities against the K3 WiFi benchmark.

This is hardly impossible. (We in this forum can name a couple of solid alternatives. ) But it requires competence and agility; the days of a regional player simply rebadging a generic chinese reader running generic Adobe reader software and making a living shipping 25000 units a year are coming to an end. (Hence the vanishing readers.)

The industry is headed for a phase of consolidation over the next year and odds are most of the third-tier minor players are going to be getting into generic Android LCD tablets instead of generic eink readers.

This will clear the terrain for the non-generic eink readers to stand out *if* (big if) they take advantage of the opportunity. Interesting times are here.

[rblover]

The Pocketbook has 64MB of RAM, NO text to speech capability, AND costs $90.00 more than a Kindle...and I should buy it why?

[Logseman]

Originally Posted by rblover

The Pocketbook has 64MB of RAM, NO text to speech capability, AND costs $90.00 more than a Kindle...and I should buy it why?

I assume you're comparing with 301+. 301+:

1. reads more formats out of the box, with no need to mail files for conversion.
2. is more pocketable (no keyboard).
3. supports as many dictionaries, fonts and logos and so on as you want to bring inside it. If I remember properly, Kindle has one dictionary and one font.

If you think those features are worth the extra 90 dollars, then you should buy it. Otherwise, Kindle will be a better option. The ability to choose is one of the greatest blessings of the modern age

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by rblover

The Pocketbook has 64MB of RAM, NO text to speech capability, AND costs $90.00 more than a Kindle...and I should buy it why?

Well, you might need more than 4GB of storage.
(I just bought a superbly-formatted PD library of 25,000+ PD ebooks that comes on two DVDs. I copied them to an SD card and put the card in my PB360. Took 8 minutes to copy to the card and ten seconds to boot the reader. And I still have room for my commercial ebook collection.)

Or you might want to directly load up ePubs, FB2, rtf, doc, etc
(Some of us have been doing ebooks since the last century; Calibre is a good converter but it isn't perfect.)
You might want to access library ebooks.
You might want to access Google crapscans (I know, not likely, but you *can*.)
You might want to organize you books by folders as well as by tags.
You might want to be able to copy, move, rename or delete ebooks right on the device.

You might want to read in a font of your choice, not just Caecillia in one of three variants. (I rather favor Georgia, myself.)
You might want to control font size, spacing, margins, and styles globally, in one point increments.
You might want to switch between books without going through the bookshelf.

Or, maybe you just want a compact eink reader that does all of the above and fits in your front pants pocket. And doesn't need a $30-60 leather case to be safely carried about. (Pocketbook 360)

Even in pantyhose, one size does not fit all.
There is room for more than one vision of what an ebook reader should be just as there is room for more than one ebook format.
Variety is good.
Competition is good.

Maybe the virtues of Pocketbook have no use to you.
In which case you are lucky Kindle's virtues are as affordable as they are.
But to some of us they are easily worth the extra $60 for the PB360.
And some of us are lucky to be able to get both for less than what the original Kindle sold for.

It is nice to have a choice and be able to make up *our* minds what meets *our* needs.

[olis]

Personally I'd be willing to pay up to 30% more for a device with all the excellent software features that the pocketbook offers.
I think PB should release a new line of devices with the new Pearl e-ink as soon as possible. Moreover, even if they are never going to match the kindle price, they should at least try to lower theirs substantially.