Anyone here from the UK? Need some help with British English.

[HarryT]

It's sometimes the little things that "jar". Eg, at the moment I'm watching the live press conference between Mr Obama and Mr Cameron. Mr Obama refers to Mr Cameron as "Prime Minister Cameron". That's just "wrong" to a British ear; we don't use the job title in that way.

[gwynevans]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

The other guy is the president of the Bank of England. He's a businessman at heart, but he also funds lots of black organizations with less than respectable (ie, world domination) goals in mind. (I'm not trying to say that all bankers are evil, but this one just happens to be. lol)

I'd suggest that you consider whether he should be a chairman/CEO of a retail or merchant bank, rather than the BoE itself - it's a similar position to the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board in the US.

The Governor of the Bank of England is typically an economist & will be also Chairman of the Monetary Policy Committee, with a major role in guiding national economic and monetary policy, and is therefore one of the most important public officials in the United Kingdom.

He's probably not the sort of person to grin, either! Some of the dialog sounds too 'posh' - more suited to the past than the future - I think it's the 'infernal' that sounds that way to me, although I'd doubt many people would say "do not" rather that "don't" although it's possible if the character was being portrayed as particulalry pedantic.

The "with prejudice" phrase, though, is a US 'flavoured' one and not something that would be used over here - I'm not sure it would even be used in the US other than by Intelligence Service 'wannabees'! :-)

[Worldwalker]

"With prejudice" and "with extreme prejudice" are used colloquially in the US. Then again, so is just about everything.

[Worldwalker]

What we're looking at here is a professional attitude. Steve is going to considerable effort to make sure something -- in this case, the speech patterns of even minor characters -- are correct.

That stands in direct contrast to the attitude that seems to have migrated from fanfic to self-published, would-be pros who say "that doesn't matter, it's just fiction." I think we've all seen the results, and they're not pretty. Nor, despite the authors' best efforts, are those results marketable.

So I guess I'm going to have to find some space for Steve's books on my TBR list, because someone who cares about the details of his minor characters' speech cares enough to write a good book.

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by Lexi Revellian

Of course we're all quite resigned to the baddies having clipped English accents in American films. Proud of it, even...

Well, actually, I'm not. The only reason that they're British is because it was the only believable character type I could come up with. Well, at least one I felt most readers would understand. If that little part of the story could have believably been done in another country, I would have adjusted the character types and speech accordingly to fit the area. I actually have an Australian as one of my characters (Commander Sydney, tactical officer of the Sergenious, and yes, his name is an intentional pun.) and I dug around for people who knew the little verbal word plays, words, etc that would be common among Australians to use. I also watched a few shows, some news, etc, and picked up on some myself, as well as local and cultural references to ensure that the character was accurate and believable. Yes, I am one who believes in doing as much homework as possible to ensure accuracy. I don't always get it right, but at least I try.

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's sometimes the little things that "jar". Eg, at the moment I'm watching the live press conference between Mr Obama and Mr Cameron. Mr Obama refers to Mr Cameron as "Prime Minister Cameron". That's just "wrong" to a British ear; we don't use the job title in that way.

Well, yes, it may be wrong in the British ear, but not in America. That's because in America, addressing someone by their formal rank and/or title is an expression of respect. So in our eyes it would have actually been rude and disrespectful of his position as Prime Minister to address him simply as "Mr. Cameron." And believe me, if he'd done that, people would have eaten him alive in the press. That's one of those imaginary lines of etiquette we've dictate as a culture that people do not cross, save in certain situations of familiarity. (IE, knowing someone well enough to be on a first name basis in private.)

Originally Posted by gwynevans

The "with prejudice" phrase, though, is a US 'flavoured' one and not something that would be used over here - I'm not sure it would even be used in the US other than by Intelligence Service 'wannabees'! :-)

Well, that's something I didn't know, so I'll take note of that. However, I may ultimately leave it in. I say that because of what one of the other posters pointed out about how elements of American English are finding their way into British English, and vice versa. For example, ten years ago I never would have expected to hear someone from America use the word "bloody" in the same way the British do, unless they were originally from the UK. Lately though, it's actually become quite common to here someone doing that. In fact, I catch myself unconsciously using it at times as well. ^_^;;

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

What we're looking at here is a professional attitude. Steve is going to considerable effort to make sure something -- in this case, the speech patterns of even minor characters -- are correct.

That stands in direct contrast to the attitude that seems to have migrated from fanfic to self-published, would-be pros who say "that doesn't matter, it's just fiction." I think we've all seen the results, and they're not pretty. Nor, despite the authors' best efforts, are those results marketable.

So I guess I'm going to have to find some space for Steve's books on my TBR list, because someone who cares about the details of his minor characters' speech cares enough to write a good book.

Thank you for the compliment. ^_^ Yes, I try to be as detail oriented as possible. I've suffered through many a book that was poorly researched, and thus I do not ever want to do that to my readers if I can help it. On top of that, the better you research your writing, the better and more believable the story is. Which brings up another example. From book 5, I actually had to go through and do a ton of research on the 1795-1815 period to ensure that I had all my facts straight about the time period. I had even wanted to put a few ships by name into the story, but soon found that their dates in port, or time of operation, didn't match the timeframe of the book, and therefore couldn't be used. It's also spawned quite a few new and interesting ideas that have found their way into the stories as well. So that research benefits the reader (and the writer) much farther than simply ensuring accuracy in a given segment of the story.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steven Lake

Well, yes, it may be wrong in the British ear, but not in America. That's because in America, addressing someone by their formal rank and/or title is an expression of respect. So in our eyes it would have actually been rude and disrespectful of his position as Prime Minister to address him simply as "Mr. Cameron." And believe me, if he'd done that, people would have eaten him alive in the press. That's one of those imaginary lines of etiquette we've dictate as a culture that people do not cross, save in certain situations of familiarity. (IE, knowing someone well enough to be on a first name basis in private.)

Oh yes, it wasn't a criticism, just an example of a cultural difference, and something it would be very easy for an author to inadvertantly get wrong.

Mr. Cameron would normally be addressed as "Prime Minister", just as you'd address Mr. Obama as "Mr. President", but when talking about him we'd say "The Prime Minister did such-and-such", or even "The Prime Minister, David Cameron, did such-and-such", but never "Prime Minister Cameron did such-and-such"; the job title is not a "rank" and is never appended to someone's name in the way that in the US titles like "President" or "Senator" are.

It's that sort of little detail that's all too easy for someone from a different culture to get wrong in a book. Kudos to you for checking that your conversation does sound "natural" - all too many authors don't bother. I read an interview with an author recently who said "I never do any research for my books", and I was disappointed that an author would take that attitude.

[nobicus]

Have you noticed that the "baddies" always have a British accent? But please feel free to leave the 'americanisms' as they are. We will then know that the "baddy" is a plant put there by the Bilderberg group.
Many years ago the English Bar Association recommended that High Court Judges should try to learn some street 'patois' to enable them to cope when listening to evidence in court. Giles came up with a great cartoon of two judges in the Robing Room and one has a small piece of paper stuck to his cheek and is saying, presumably in his Old Etonian accent "Yus. I nicked my kisser with my shiv whilst shaving this morning".
Incidentally did you know that "Hello" Magazine is called "Ow do" north of Watford.

[GeoffC]

Ow do, or more likely Ay up !

Or as they say in this part of Scotland "fit like" ....

[Sparrow]

My workplace has just decreed that we do some Cultural Navigator training, so we are aware what is and is not acceptable when dealing with colleagues in different countries.
Dunno how useful it'll be; but, despite my initial reservations, it actually looks quite interesting.

[Steven Lake]

Originally Posted by HarryT

....all too many authors don't bother. I read an interview with an author recently who said "I never do any research for my books", and I was disappointed that an author would take that attitude.

Hmm, I don't know why they wouldn't. It drives me nuts to write something and not know that I'm doing it accurately, or as accurately as is relevant to the scene/character. That likely comes from the fact that I hate reading stuff that someone says is gospel fact, and you know is dead wrong. So if I hate it being done to me, why would I do it to others?

Originally Posted by nobicus

Have you noticed that the "baddies" always have a British accent? But please feel free to leave the 'americanisms' as they are.

I actually try to avoid the "americanisms" whenever possible. Now some things are so embedded in the culture that even the supposedly foreign shows, books, and magazines are littered with them so much so that you can't tell if that's actually used in another part of the world or not, or if it's uniquely american. That's why I do so much research to ensure that I'm culturally accurate.

One author I admire a lot who does exactly that (ie, lots of foreign culture research) is Tim Lahay, one of the writers of the Left Behind series. There were things he brought out in his book that were culturally specific to certain areas of the world (like the term "Early Fruit", which is apparently used in the middle east to refer to fruit that appears in the spring at the same time as the flowers. Don't ask me how that works, but apparently it happens over there), and even a few regionally specific items in the US that I didn't know about.

So he's been one of several inspirations in that regard, as far as getting your characters culturally correct. I don't always hit it spot on, but I try to get as close as possible. Speaking of which, I've got some characters coming up in book 5 of my series I may have to let you guys check out for me too. One's a German, another is Scottish, and the last is Irish, and they're all from the 1799-1810 period, as book 5 is a flashback prequil that goes back into the roots and founding of Earthfleet.

And as mentioned in another post, I had to do a crazy amount of historical research too in order to make sure that Edmond, the main protagonist in the book, was speaking correctly for his time period since he draws right out of New England culture.

[neilmarr]

It's sometimes a tricky job for a single international edition publisher (my own for instance) to be sure that terminology travels well whilst remaining faithful to the original author voice. One wee thing that might be helpful, Steve, is that I've found through forty years' experience working for publishers in the US, UK and Oz that although many common American words and expressions export perfectly, the same cannot be said of British and Australian colloquialisms. Good luck and best wishes. Neil

[MelC]

I'm not British and can't comment on the lingo (although as a Canadian I will firmly stand by my right to use "re" instead of "er" and "ou" instead of "o" where appropriate). I did want to say that I agree with Gwyn though on the "Bank of England" thing. This is the equivalent of the U.S. Federal Reserve essentially for you US types. England's financial institutions have had a hard enough time of it lately without impugning their central bank with a bunch of shady deals

Mel