I want to buy your ebooks, but....

[Hellmark]

Problem doublepost.

[Nathanael]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Amazon's goal is to make their reading app available on as wide a range of mobile (and not so mobile) devices as possible.

Including my Sony 600?

Alternatively, Amazon could stop packaging ebooks in its proprietary format. Then it wouldn't need to make its app available at all. As an added bonus, those of us who don't fancy Kindles could read 'em, too.

Just a thought....

Originally Posted by Hellmark

And if it is legal in your area, DRM removal is possible.

In addition to the DMCA (in the US), DRM removal is a violation of your license. The one you probably didn't know you agreed to when you licensed (not purchased) that Amazon ebook:

Restrictions. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content.

--Nathanael

[plumboz]

Firstly, thanks, SameOldStory, I'm glad you liked Boomerang. I'm not all that savvy about all the issues regarding ebook compatibility and such, but I have tried to make sure my book is available in as many places as possible, with as few restrictions as possible. When publishing through Amazon one of the boxes one ticks off is DRM or Not. I chose Not. And of course going through Smashwords allows writers to make their work available in multiple formats and DRM-free, so trust me, the independent writers out there like me are trying like crazy to make sure there isn't anything standing between you and our books. Well, besides the investment of eighty-nine to ninety-nine cents, which is the price spread on Boomerang over Sony, Kobo, Amazon, B&N and Apple.

As a recent nook owner and not all that savvy computer person, I have experienced more than enough frustration in trying to get the books I want to work with the reader I have. It does seem to me that at some point the industry is going to have to figure out how to get their product to all interested consumers without forcing them to purchase specific readers. Doing otherwise is just plain bad business.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Nathanael

In addition to the DMCA (in the US), DRM removal is a violation of your license. The one you probably didn't know you agreed to when you licensed (not purchased) that Amazon ebook:

In the US, it isn't legal, however there are some countries where you're still fully able to strip the DRM, despite the license agreement. DMCA aside, the license issue is typically simply a civil matter.

[Nathanael]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

there are some countries where you're still fully able to strip the DRM, despite the license agreement.

I know, I live in one of those countries (China). Which is why Diesel, for example, refuses to sell to me. I'm quite struck by the irony: an American company refusing to sell to China because China has too much freedom.

--Nathanael

[SameOldStory]

Originally Posted by plumboz

Firstly, thanks, SameOldStory, I'm glad you liked Boomerang. I'm not all that savvy about all the issues regarding ebook compatibility and such, but I have tried to make sure my book is available in as many places as possible, with as few restrictions as possible. When publishing through Amazon one of the boxes one ticks off is DRM or Not. I chose Not.

Well, besides the investment of eighty-nine to ninety-nine cents, which is the price spread on Boomerang over Sony, Kobo, Amazon, B&N and Apple.

OK, plumboz. You're now $0.89 richer. Party hardy or put a little of that aside for your retirement.

I bought it again. This time from Amazon. So far I've spent $1.88 on your book. And it's well worth it.

By the way -> Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #35,913. Out of how many millions of books? Good going plumboz.

The only way to download it was to install "Kindle For PC". Amazon can now crow about having 846,357,361,550 +1 readers.

Location - My Documents\My Kindle Content. File title - B002BWPDYS_EBOK.azw

Calibre had no problem converting it. Calibre did complain that I already had a book with the same name, Boomerang that is, not B002BWPDYS_EBOK.

Another "By the way". Smashwords should let us "Vote" for the books we REALY like by letting us buy it again. Come on, $.99 is too low for a good book. $2 is very good. And if I were familiar with an authors work $3 to $6 would be acceptable. If I REALY like you $10 would be ok too.

Sadly there is, as of now, no way to tell if a Kindle book has DRM on it or not by looking at the web page.

There is no way that I would read with "Kindle For PC". If I had to read on a pc I would use what I used to use - Mobipocket Reader.

[plumboz]

Dear Same Old Story,

I've no idea what to say except Thank You.

So that's what I'll do.

Thank you.

Very much indeed.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by Nathanael

Restrictions. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content.

That leads inquiring minds to wonder ... what is the Digital Content (when did that become a proper noun?) being "protected" from? From me sharing copies of it? DRM wouldn't stop me from doing that if I wanted to (no more than it does the people who keep the darknet humming), so it's clearly not "protecting" the book. In fact, the only thing that does prevent me from doing so is my moral values and my conscience. So what I'd be agreeing to, in that case, would be to not bypass my own conscience. No problem, I don't make a habit of going all psycho anyway.

I know that's not what Amazon means (which is one of the reasons why I won't touch their books with a barge pole) but I'd love to see someone argue that in court, because I think (IANAL, of course, or I wouldn't think such silly things) that it might work. It doesn't say features that are intended to "protect" the content, only those that do so, which means if I can break it, it's not much of a "protective" feature, right?

[Nathanael]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

It doesn't say features that are intended to "protect" the content, only those that do so, which means if I can break it, it's not much of a "protective" feature, right?

I suspect that, from Amazon's point of view, the purpose of the contract -- and the DRM -- is not so much to prevent illicit copying per se, but to make publishers happy. Amazon's DRM is easily stripped. You know it, I know it, Amazon knows it, and bittorrent and warez sites are full of Kindle books[1]. I suspect Amazon isn't terribly concerned as long as the publishers aren't.

But of course, since those of us who don't live in the US aren't bound by the DMCA Amazon licenses, Amazon won't sell to us. God forbid a DRMed ebook should wind up in a country less restrictive of end-user rights than the US.

--Nathanael

[1] Or, well, at least books claiming to be Kindle. I haven't bothered downloading any.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

That leads inquiring minds to wonder ... what is the Digital Content (when did that become a proper noun?) being "protected" from? From me sharing copies of it? DRM wouldn't stop me from doing that if I wanted to (no more than it does the people who keep the darknet humming)

As with most minimal security efforts like door locks and DRM, the purpose is to protect the contents from the relatively honest person. Publishers know, as do homeowners, that locks and DRM won't keep the contents safe from someone who is determined and knowledgeable, but it will keep out the casual offender.

[Worldwalker]

But if it does not successfully "protect" the contents, does it actually qualify as "protection"? By my twisted late-night reading of that license, you're only prohibited from breaking the DRM if you're unable to do it. Which I'm pretty sure isn't what they were trying to say.

No "protection" is needed from honest people, and DRM does not prevent copying and distribution by dishonest people. The publishers know this. It's about platform lock-in.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

But if it does not successfully "protect" the contents, does it actually qualify as "protection"? By my twisted late-night reading of that license, you're only prohibited from breaking the DRM if you're unable to do it. Which I'm pretty sure isn't what they were trying to say.

No "protection" is needed from honest people, and DRM does not prevent copying and distribution by dishonest people. The publishers know this. It's about platform lock-in.

I guess you could argue that the protection works with people who aren't honest and just lack tech skills to overcome DRM. Kinda limits crimes of opportunity with those people. Even if DRM doesn't work at all, though, companies don't need to defend the right to use it. They can do stupid things as long as people buy.

[SensualPoet]

In spite of the constant harangue about DRM here on Mobileread, it doesn't appear to have impacted the ability of Amazon, B&N, Sony, Kobo and everyone else who is doing it ... from selling ebooks with (and ebook readers supporting) DRM.

ebook DRM does not get in the way of the reading experience but it does discourage a tidal wave of sharing. Give someone your paperback and you no longer have your paperback; that is not the same thing with ebooks.

For those really fussed by DRM, well, it can be removed. The evidence suggests the public, however, can't be bothered and is content to vote with their cash, buying DRM ebooks in greater and greater volume.

(It would be interesting to know how many ebooks purchased with DRM stay locked by the original purchaser. My guess is that, in percentage terms, virtually all of them stay that way.)

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

In spite of the constant harangue about DRM here on Mobileread, it doesn't appear to have impacted the ability of Amazon, B&N, Sony, Kobo and everyone else who is doing it ... from selling ebooks with (and ebook readers supporting) DRM.

ebook DRM does not get in the way of the reading experience but it does discourage a tidal wave of sharing. Give someone your paperback and you no longer have your paperback; that is not the same thing with ebooks.

For those really fussed by DRM, well, it can be removed. The evidence suggests the public, however, can't be bothered and is content to vote with their cash, buying DRM ebooks in greater and greater volume.

(It would be interesting to know how many ebooks purchased with DRM stay locked by the original purchaser. My guess is that, in percentage terms, virtually all of them stay that way.)

Bullseye! People just want to read their books!

It doesn't discourage me from sharing my books because I learned the hard way NOT to share books since when I got them back IF I got them back they were all jacked up!

As much as the Anti drm'ers state that stripping drm is easy, I've checked it out & quite honestly the time it would take me to go through all of the process, I could spend time actually READING my books.

I think I've taken sufficient means to protect my investment in ebooks. So unless all the stores that I've bought my books from, & Adobe all go belly up, I think I'm fine.

[Nathanael]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

As much as the Anti drm'ers state that stripping drm is easy, I've checked it out & quite honestly the time it would take me to go through all of the process, I could spend time actually READING my books.

So happens I downloaded some software a couple days ago that claimed to strip both Kindle and B&N DRM[1]. This seemed like a good excuse to test the claim, so I downloaded a sample ebook from Amazon[2]. Had it liberated in 38 seconds flat, and a good chunk of that was just waiting for the software to load. There's even a bulk mode, so I could fell an entire forest at a single stroke. Almost made me wish I actually had a Kindle library to point it at.

I think I've taken sufficient means to protect my investment in ebooks. So unless all the stores that I've bought my books from, & Adobe all go belly up, I think I'm fine.

Hmm... most of the bookstores I frequented twenty years ago have already bitten the dust. Surprisingly, my books are still on my shelves.

And there's the rub -- the very idea that I should have to go through a gatekeeper just to read. Pretty frightening thought -- that Amazon not only controls access to my books but dictates when and where I can read them. Just imagine, the day Amazon shuffles off the mortal coil, suddenly hundreds of millions of bought-n-paid-for ebooks all over the world evaporate into the binary ether.

I'm just not the type to trade away my reading rights for a spot of convenience. Fortunately for Amazon, most folk are.

--Nathanael

[1] Fortuitously, I live in a country where possession of such software is not a crime.

[2] A mini-adventure in itself. Step 1: install Kindle for PC. But Amazon wouldn't let me download the software because I'm running a prohibited operating system (Linux). So I fired up an XP VM, reconnected, and downloaded the software. Step 2: purchase (purchase?!?) a sample ebook. Once again, Amazon refused to do business because it said I live in a forbidden geographical area (and thereby, in one swell foop, consigning half the world to the digital hinterlands). So I fired up my proxy software, reconnected through a Stateside proxy service I frequently use to scale the Chinese firewall, and suddenly Amazon was all smiles. (You can read all the details in my latest novel, Confessions of a Cyberthief, available now for digital download at Amazon. )