New Kindle App 2.1 Out

[Bremen Cole]

Speaking of market share... I would wager that iBooks in less than three month is selling more books than Sony who has been in the ebook biz longer than anyone......

I agree that Amazon is the most odd ball and locked down format/device. But, I also agree that with the ability to liberate and convert it makes it almost a moot point. I still prefer buying from Kobo because for me it is so easy to liberate and most of the time they have Amazons price point.... But I do buy books from Amazon from time to time,,,,,

[scottjl]

yeah. but what if they tweak things and make it unable to liberate? amazon would have an easy time doing this because they control all the kindle software and devices. a mandatory update and you're stuck. it's much harder for adobe because of the number of vendors they have to deal with and getting all of them to update all their devices. more like herding cats.

[Bremen Cole]

Originally Posted by scottjl

yeah. but what if they tweak things and make it unable to liberate? amazon would have an easy time doing this because they control all the kindle software and devices. a mandatory update and you're stuck. it's much harder for adobe because of the number of vendors they have to deal with and getting all of them to update all their devices. more like herding cats.

Good point. I liberate them as soon as I buy, so if they would do such a thing I simply would not buy from them again (like I don't buy from Apple now). But, the people who do not remove DRM will be screwed sooner or later.....

[Rique]

Originally Posted by Bremen Cole

Good point. I liberate them as soon as I buy, so if they would do such a thing I simply would not buy from them again (like I don't buy from Apple now). But, the people who do not remove DRM will be screwed sooner or later.....

Ab-so-LUTE-ly!

which is why I don't believe they would do that. Classic case of "load weapon, shoot one's own foot".

-- Riq

[scottjl]

huh? i have no doubt that our ability to remove their DRM is the least of their considerations..

[leebase]

Originally Posted by scottjl

less than amazon's. yes. but put it this way. if sony stops makign ereaders, i can take my documents (without stripping

Far far far far less. ADE is just another proprietary solution and one that has a small part of the market. If one is looking for safety, picking a market also ran isn't typically the safe route.

Lee

[scottjl]

where are you getting your numbers please?

[leebase]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

Lee

[scottjl]

i'm curious what the numbers are now that the ipad has been released.. in any event, it doesn't take much effort on amazon's part to make it difficult, if not impossible, for you to strip their DRM from today forward, just one quick change in the scheme. pushed out in their recently released update perhaps..

[Bremen Cole]

I seem to keep falling in the middle of you guys

To me, the people that remove DRM (like myself, but a small minority of ebook buyers) are safe, ether way it goes. The ebooks in my collection will still work 20 years from now, as I can convert with ease to whatever "standard" may be set.

The people that leave DRM are screwed no matter what. Eventually the company they buy from will go out of business, change formats....whatever. So 20 years from now odds are they will be unable to read the books they "own" on the then current reading devices. But the Amazon buyers will be even more screwed than the ADE buyers. Amazon books are tied to Amazon readers (just as Amazon wants it). That consist of ONE hardware reader brand, and less than a half dozen software readers. ePubs are spread out with variable DRM schemes, but the format is there for virtually every current hardware and software.... except Amazon.

Anyway, the lesson to me is simple. Learn to strip DRM from your books, or realize you are just renting the book for a limited time.....

[Rique]

Originally Posted by scottjl

huh? i have no doubt that our ability to remove their DRM is the least of their considerations..

Hi Scott,

I think shrinking their potential market is not the least of their considerations - I'm hard pressed to think of an example of a vendor where their market increased after making their media (and I'm thinking back to all media) more restrictive / less open.

So call me a dreamer, but I do think if Amazon were to make their DRM "unbreakable", it would hurt their market share.

As purely anecdotal evidence, count the number of posts in this forum where someone has stated that s/he won't buy from the Apple store, because of Apple's DRM.

Thanks,
-- Rique

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Rique

As purely anecdotal evidence, count the number of posts in this forum where someone has stated that s/he won't buy from the Apple store, because of Apple's DRM.

More accurately, because books from the Apple store are only available on one device, which is not true of Amazon.

[scottjl]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

More accurately, because books from the Apple store are only available on one device, which is not true of Amazon.

right. it's not so much i have a problem with Apple's DRM (I'm not happy about it, but I accept it) as much as the fact that those DRM protected files are only available on one platform. if I leave that platform or it goes away (you know, apple is just a fad and is dying/going away/going under soon) then i am SOL as far as my purchases. i have an old sony electronic book reader (the one that uses the minidiscs). sony discontinued it. where are my purchases today? every once in a while i fire it up and it still works and i can read my collection of 20 or so books if i choose. but one day it won't work and i'll have a stack of unreadable plastic discs (which have DRM on them btw).

[Rique]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

More accurately, because books from the Apple store are only available on one device, which is not true of Amazon.

@murraypaul, I was just referencing the number of posts where Apple's DRM is specifically stated as the reason - or as one of several reasons.

The point I was trying to make is that tightening DRM (e.g, building an "unbreakable" DRM) would, IMHO, hurt ANY publisher of eBooks - even mighty Amazon. And as "evidence" (in quotes, because it is only anecdotal, after all), I'm citing the number of posts I've seen (including my own) where people specifically cite the Fairplay DRM as the reason they avoid Apple's bookstore.

To be honest, this is only my gut feeling - I've not seen any research into what would happen if Amazon's DRM were tightened up - I know that I would seek other booksellers, but I am only one buyer. My sense is that I would not be alone.

Thanks,
-- Rique

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Bremen Cole

The people that leave DRM are screwed no matter what. Eventually the company they buy from will go out of business, change formats....whatever. So 20 years from now odds are they will be unable to read the books they "own" on the then current reading devices. But the Amazon buyers will be even more screwed than the ADE buyers. Amazon books are tied to Amazon readers (just as Amazon wants it).

More screwed? If Adobe goes down you won't be able to unlock your books (legitimately) no matter what ADE device you are using.

If Amazon would go under -- you are in the same boat. Your kindle device (whether an actual kindle or a device running kindle software) -- will read all the books you have loaded on it already.

It is not likely that Amazon or Adobe is going to abruptly go out of business any time soon.

However, it is QUITE likely that the device you are reading on today is not going to be the device you want to read on tomorrow. Amazon is WAY ahead in the number of devices you can read their books on.

But - at least we agree on the advisability of removing the DRM from the books you've bought.

ePub vs. .mobi (or .lit etc.) isn't a big deal to me. It's the DRM that affects portability. With software like Calibre, you can go from one format to another, if it wasn't for DRM.

Since Adobe is just another DRM scheme, it is not "more safe" because it's epub -- just as Apple is not 'open' because it's epub. DRM is lock in no matter who does it.

To this day there is not great and easy support for Adobe DRM on Apple readers -- and no support at all on the kindle. And those two companies represent the present and the future of ebooks. The Sony and the Nook are barely a blip -- minor niche players in comparison.

Lee