Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by recluse

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. If you have some deep seated loathing for the flag, don't fly it.

The most ridiculous thing I've ever heard (well, way up there) is the attitude by ultra-patriots that anyone who doesn't wrap their entire identity around a flag has a "deep seated loathing" for it. I don't "loathe" the flag-- I simply feel nothing whatsoever about it. And then (very typically) Fox has to twist what is a normal ("normal" in that housing complexes have standards for appearance, not necessarily that this standard of appearance is the norm) policy relating to all displays into "these people hate America and veterans" screed. And then all the knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers make the usual death threats that you get from the "love it or leave it crowd."

It reminds me of a local incident a short time back-- a group decides to plant small American flags every so many feet along a highway. A bank employee-- thinking that she was following corporate policy about 3rd party items being posted on the bank's property-- doesn't allow it. A s***storm of overreaction, indignity, and death threats came soon after, so bad that employees had to go into hiding for fear of their lives.

http://www.google.com/#num=100&hl=en...614fd580843fc7

Is it really so hard to grasp that some people don't feel the need to be screaming "America" every second of every day but yet still don't "loathe" it?

[Spoon Man]

Well, that was a sad incident indeed. However, the idea of the "ultra-patriots" is that if you are not one of them, your the enemy. Unfortunately its guys like this that give a negative connotation to the word "patriot". Its also these guys that made it a bad thing to be in a militia.

[omk3]

Well said, ardeegee.

I've been fighting not to post here, because nothing good will come of it, but I really wonder, why do people who live in their own country, and are this country's citizens, are on this country's soil and this soil is not occupied, and it's not a national holiday or anything, why do they feel the need to display the flag every chance they get?

That's in all the countries I've been, some more than others. I feel uncomfortable seeing flags everywhere, why do they need to shout out the blindingly obvious?

Not hanging your beliefs out your window for the world to see is a matter of aesthetics for me, not of freedom of speech.

[Sparrow]

I accept it's a personal choice about whether folk display flags or not.
But when I see it in my community, I can't help feeling there's a tribal element to it.

Personally, I empathise with the sentiment of the Rush lyric:
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world,
Than the pride that divides when a colourful rag is unfurled."

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by omk3

Weel said, ardeegee.


Not hanging your beliefs out your window for the world to see is a matter of aesthetics for me, not of freedom of speech.

I've been confused about that for a long time. A flag over a school, a library, a federal building, that makes perfect sense to me. On a boat or ship flying the flag from its home port, yes. Over a Walmart? I don't get it. I guess I see national flags as having official uses But hey if it means that much to someone to want to either fly one or burn one, either way first amendment.

[Spoon Man]

Aye, the first amendment, but it still is our flag, and we take pride in it and its origins. Some Americans see it as a symbol of the adversity through which our country was founded, and a sign of respect for the men and women who have given their lives to found, defend, and protect this nation and the people within. As such, they see someone burning or banning the flag as a slap in the face to those people. In their mind, regardless of what you believe politically, those people have indirectly given their lives for you, and you need to respect at least that act alone by respecting the flag.

[MJK2111]

Originally Posted by Spoon Man

Unfortunately very few people read the Wealth of Nations (the book on which our economic system has been based).

Not to stir the pot, but I seriously doubt that a book first published in 1776 has any relevance to today's economy.

[MJK2111]

Originally Posted by recluse

I always fly the flag. I listen to Sean Hannity.

Well, one out of two isn't bad.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by omk3

Well said, ardeegee.

I've been fighting not to post here, because nothing good will come of it, but I really wonder, why do people who live in their own country, and are this country's citizens, are on this country's soil and this soil is not occupied, and it's not a national holiday or anything, why do they feel the need to display the flag every chance they get?

That's in all the countries I've been, some more than others. I feel uncomfortable seeing flags everywhere, why do they need to shout out the blindingly obvious?

Not hanging your beliefs out your window for the world to see is a matter of aesthetics for me, not of freedom of speech.

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I accept it's a personal choice about whether folk display flags or not.
But when I see it in my community, I can't help feeling there's a tribal element to it.

Personally, I empathise with the sentiment of the Rush lyric:
"Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world,
Than the pride that divides when a colourful rag is unfurled."

back in my Christian affiliated days, shortly after I came back from Germany the first time, I was elected as an elder in my Presbyterian Church. when I was growing up in that same Church, there was always the Church flag and the American flag in the front of the sanctuary, off to each side bracketing the cross high on the wall. while I had been gone, a spate of political correctness had infused the Church and the flags had been moved to the narthax. I moved them back to the front of the sanctuary. the next week they were back in the narthax. I moved them back... this went on for a month. finally one Sunday I waited in the narthax until the "announcements" had started, and brought the American flag back up front and put it back in its place. I excused myself to the congregation, went up to the pulpit and said something along the lines of; "this flag behind me is the symbol of what gives you the freedom to sit in these seats and look at the symbol of your religion up above you. if this congregation has found it untenable to have the symbol of freedom in their view while gazing at the symbol of their religion, then maybe I need to rethink my participation in this church. I'll be open for discussion of this topic at the next meeting of the session." the flag never moved again, and no one came to talk about it.

Originally Posted by MJK2111

Not to stir the pot, but I seriously doubt that a book first published in 1776 has any relevance to today's economy.

except many history professors still feel it is relevant to understanding the nation's development

[yvanleterrible]

I just went to the link you posted at the top, KK. According to the picture it appears this guy is using the flag as a bluddy curtain! Isn't that illegal? That alone could be grounds for actions...

[kindlekitten]

well he gets to keep it!

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I just went to the link you posted at the top, KK. According to the picture it appears this guy is using the flag as a bluddy curtain! Isn't that illegal? That alone could be grounds for actions...

that isn't a good representation. it is hung IN the window. that is a fairly common flag display. it is NOT being used as a curtain! (if you look closely there are actually blinds over it)

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

...went up to the pulpit and said something along the lines of; "this flag behind me is the symbol of what gives you the freedom to sit in these seats and look at the symbol of your religion up above you..."

Personally, I don't see the symbolism the same way - after all, people sit in churches all over the world.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Personally, I don't see the symbolism the same way - after all, people sit in churches all over the world.

I really didn't think I was that obtuse in my message. sitting wasn't the issue. of course if this was an attempt at humor on your part, it didn't work well

[yvanleterrible]

Personnally I think that overuse of a symbol as important as a flag is diminishing the power of its effect. There are places and times for its use to remind us why it's there. More display than that and it loses seriousness. That is something difficult to judge but some people definitely exagerate.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I really didn't think I was that obtuse in my message. sitting wasn't the issue. of course if this was an attempt at humor on your part, it didn't work well

No, the point I was making was that people in other nations attend church.