Seriously thoughtful Let's be civil, please

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

Wow - I've just got back online and am trying to catch up on stuff here.

For my 2 cents: there is no place here for blatantly political or religious posts - yes, it's a judgment call for the mods - but should be enforced. People cannot discuss their patriotic or religious feelings rationally - they are personal beliefs, not rational facts. And they're certainly not a joking matter.
....

CAKE'S ON ME!! CHOCOLATE!

Welcome back! Just congratulated you in the other thread.

For my part I think political, religious and social issues are probably the MOST important things we can discuss and probably the most important thing we must learn to come to terms with and understand and work together about if we are to survive as a species.

I think that (like elfwreck) we should not ban topics or remove threads, but must should certainly enforce the no personal attacks and discuss the topic not the person. We should all do our part to enforce that and help the moderators out, sometimes just a reminder is all it takes. Not that we should all be thread police, but should certainly police ourselves and encourage others to do the same. I'm unsubscribed from a couple of iPad threads today for that very reason, not that I feel I was doing anything out of line, but I'd pretty much said what I needed to say and found myself repeating things and annoying some people.

Thanks for the Cake. I love chocolate!

[Donnageddon]

Again, this is a forum for ebooks, and ebook devices and technology. There is absolutely no need for political (especially current politics) or for that matter religion.

As we have seen from the Conservatry and the Seriuosly Thoughtful forums, whenever you have people posting on the above topics, it turns to disaster.

There was a time, not too long ago, when this was understood. But then some people felt empowered to bring their political ideologies into the forum, and as a result we have this rancor. I know I have responded improperly to these intrusions, but like most I have a passionate belief in what is right and wrong and hate to see the unabashed ignorance stand unchallenged... But I much prefer not to respond at all to these topics.

Not here... Not in mobileread. There is a whole world wide web of forums to discuss these rancorous topics, I suggest we keep mobileread a safe haven from them.

There is no way you are going to keep such topics under control, because someone is always going to cross the line, and someone else will feel the need to respond. Mutually Assured Destruction for mobileread.

Let's not just keep it civil, let's keep it on topic, and in the case of the lounge, politics free.

[Laine]

I have been upset by some people's comments here at MR and at other forums.

I now have a rule - If I feel uptight in anyway I don't reply. I wait for the next day. By then I've got over it and can shrug it off. It's only a forum - not life and death. So I don't bother posting. (Or I can't find the thread anymore :-) )

Remember the old saying count to 10? Good advice.

[Ea]

Im surprised to see this thread. I frequent the lounge only when potentially interesting posts show up on the front page. reading the posts, i cant help but see this as a subforum issue. Please dont make the issue bigger than it is - i. e. I think this sounds like a storm in a glass of water and I hope it will stay there. Ive yet to notice any effect in other forums. and as for a forum member leaving - Ive done something like that too, not here and not in a huff, but because it didny fit. it might happen. Its noones fault, just take it easy.

[pshrynk]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I know that this will make me about as popular as a turd at an apple-bobbing contest, but can people please take the time to actually look at the comments happy_terd made before turning him into some kind of prodigal son / wronged hero.

I was one of the ones who criticised his advocating genocide for entire countries which made an enemy of America. I stand by that criticism and am actually quite happy to see the back of him.

Let me try to demonstrate what it is that I am talking about here. I appreciate your thoughtful response that tells us what you are thinking and feeling without delving into insult or rancor. You feel strongly about HT's views as expressed.

I disagree with your sentiment that we are better seeing the backside of HT or KK. Not that I agree with what they said, but rather, I do not wish to be in a community where everyone agrees with me.

Ralph and I hold some polar opposite views on a few topics, but I would consider him a friend here and would think that we would be friends IRL. Quite considerably due to the fact that we both have strong views and have thoughtfully gone through the facts as we see them and have reached our conclusions. I'd love to sit for an evening and discuss the state of the world with him, mostly because I would be eager to hear from someone on the opposition who has spent time thinking. Much more than an evening with someone who agrees with me, just because, "Of course! You have to think that way!"

My late father was fond of saying, "Don't hold an opinion until you know what the Hell you're talking about. And then be open to the idea that you don't." We had a lot f disagreements over the years, but we also had a lot of respect for one another.

As has been, and will be pointed out, having such a discussion in print without editing leads to saying things that we ought not to say. Everyone, including myself, has been guilty of such things. If I were talking in person with HT and the topic of nuclear strikes came up and he voiced that opinion, I would look at him askance and say, "Really?" and he would probably say that he was being hyperbolic and not really advocating mass destruction. I could at that point tell if he was serious by body language, etc.

My main point, and I do have one, is that we don't have the luxury of social interplay when posting. We just have the stark words as printed. Let's keep it civil.

I disagree with Donnageddon about banning all politics. Mostly because I don't trust myself enough to make the call. Partly because I enjoy discussing all sorts of things. But I agree with him to the point that I would like to see less of the discussions, for the selfish reason that I don't care to work that hard when I'm having fun.

[Ea]

Edit: this was a response to post 48, Laine

Agreed. Quite honestly, i dont understand the general feeling of upset here. But perhaps its because i rarely visit the lounge

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

Wow - I've just got back online and am trying to catch up on stuff here.

For my 2 cents: there is no place here for blatantly political or religious posts - yes, it's a judgment call for the mods - but should be enforced. People cannot discuss their patriotic or religious feelings rationally - they are personal beliefs, not rational facts. And they're certainly not a joking matter.

The llounge is a place for fun. We can & do have serious topics - but they tend to be deeply personal topics - like the light a candle thread, or commiserating with a member over some sort of loss, or helping members solve problems. The key point is keeping the interaction on a family basis. Family members can disagree or argue without breaking up the family. The trick is knowing the boundaries. For example, nobody attacks posters in the Vent & Rant thread for whatever topic is being ranted about - you are free to say what you feel and get it off your chest. That's the point!

I too support removing the offending threads entirely. There's no need to keep reminding folk, or exposing new readers, to what we've already decided is too offensive to have here. Sweep it out!

This place is too precious to me, and others, for the humor, good fun, and friendships. As others have posted above, I want to play again here, not fight!

CAKE'S ON ME!! CHOCOLATE!

Just a reminder Poohbear NC...We eat cake here - we sling mud. Don't encourge us to waste good cake....

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

Let me try to demonstrate what it is that I am talking about here. I appreciate your thoughtful response that tells us what you are thinking and feeling without delving into insult or rancor. You feel strongly about HT's views as expressed.

I disagree with your sentiment that we are better seeing the backside of HT or KK. Not that I agree with what they said, but rather, I do not wish to be in a community where everyone agrees with me.

Ralph and I hold some polar opposite views on a few topics, but I would consider him a friend here and would think that we would be friends IRL. Quite considerably due to the fact that we both have strong views and have thoughtfully gone through the facts as we see them and have reached our conclusions. I'd love to sit for an evening and discuss the state of the world with him, mostly because I would be eager to hear from someone on the opposition who has spent time thinking. Much more than an evening with someone who agrees with me, just because, "Of course! You have to think that way!"

My late father was fond of saying, "Don't hold an opinion until you know what the Hell you're talking about. And then be open to the idea that you don't." We had a lot f disagreements over the years, but we also had a lot of respect for one another.

As has been, and will be pointed out, having such a discussion in print without editing leads to saying things that we ought not to say. Everyone, including myself, has been guilty of such things. If I were talking in person with HT and the topic of nuclear strikes came up and he voiced that opinion, I would look at him askance and say, "Really?" and he would probably say that he was being hyperbolic and not really advocating mass destruction. I could at that point tell if he was serious by body language, etc.

My main point, and I do have one, is that we don't have the luxury of social interplay when posting. We just have the stark words as printed. Let's keep it civil.

I disagree with Donnageddon about banning all politics. Mostly because I don't trust myself enough to make the call. Partly because I enjoy discussing all sorts of things. But I agree with him to the point that I would like to see less of the discussions, for the selfish reason that I don't care to work that hard when I'm having fun.

If I could just figure out this Skype thingy, we could host the Pshrynk and Ralph Comedy hour....

(I figure this thread needs just a little comic relief in all this seriousness. I promise not to overdo it....)

[Ea]

Simple solution: close the lounge. if this is such a big problem why not close the forum?

And no, its not bitter grapes just playin the devils advocate. To be very very blunt: are you sure youre not whining and why?

Would have loved to be more subtle but a 3.5 inch screen sorta prevent that

Edit added; i generally agree with Elfreck (AFAI remember)

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by pshrynk

I disagree with Donnageddon about banning all politics. Mostly because I don't trust myself enough to make the call. Partly because I enjoy discussing all sorts of things. But I agree with him to the point that I would like to see less of the discussions, for the selfish reason that I don't care to work that hard when I'm having fun.

Ah, but pshrynk, you (and the other mods) DO make the call. It is all about where you draw the line, but the line is drawn. I merely suggest that when it comes to politics, you draw the line a little more toward limiting controversial political discussions, when, after all, this is not a forum to discuss the rancorous political issues of the day.

It is YOUR call. And if these political discussions continue, I believe you will find much more forum users leaving in disgust. Politics is NOT what we come, and come back again here for.

[poohbear_nc]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Just a reminder Poohbear NC...We eat cake here - we sling mud. Don't encourge us to waste good cake....

Oooohh - bad/good pun. [Slinks off to shower to remove frosting]

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

Again, this is a forum for ebooks, and ebook devices and technology. There is absolutely no need for political (especially current politics) or for that matter religion.

As we have seen from the Conservatry and the Seriuosly Thoughtful forums, whenever you have people posting on the above topics, it turns to disaster.

There was a time, not too long ago, when this was understood. But then some people felt empowered to bring their political ideologies into the forum, and as a result we have this rancor. I know I have responded improperly to these intrusions, but like most I have a passionate belief in what is right and wrong and hate to see the unabashed ignorance stand unchallenged... But I much prefer not to respond at all to these topics.

Not here... Not in mobileread. There is a whole world wide web of forums to discuss these rancorous topics, I suggest we keep mobileread a safe haven from them.

There is no way you are going to keep such topics under control, because someone is always going to cross the line, and someone else will feel the need to respond. Mutually Assured Destruction for mobileread.

Let's not just keep it civil, let's keep it on topic, and in the case of the lounge, politics free.

I disagree. How are we supposed to discuss a book like Darwin's Dangerous Idea if these topics are banned? Should I not even mention that I'm reading "The God Delusion?" How are we to discuss geographic restrictions if they are banned?

I agree the bulk of the site should be dedicated to ebook readers and ebooks. But if we are going to limit it to that then throw out the lounge and other "chat" forums and topics as well. If you start restricting by category soon they will come for you.

[Donnageddon]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I disagree. How are we supposed to discuss a book like Darwin's Dangerous Idea if these topics are banned? Should I not even mention that I'm reading "The God Delusion?" How are we to discuss geographic restrictions if they are banned?

I agree the bulk of the site should be dedicated to ebook readers and ebooks. But if we are going to limit it to that then throw out the lounge and other "chat" forums and topics as well. If you start restricting by category soon they will come for you.

Topics like DRM, global restrictions, book banning, etc. Are inherently part of this forums reach.

But what does Health Care Reform, Global Warming, and the US's various wars have to do with ebooks?

I personally can see a discussion of books, to be within the boundaries of this forums discussions, but not ancillary controversial, non ebook political discussions, which is where most of the problem stems from.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Donnageddon

Topics like DRM, global restrictions, book banning, etc. Are inherently part of this forums reach.

But what does Health Care Reform, Global Warming, and the US's various wars have to do with ebooks?

I personally can see a discussion of books, to be within the boundaries of this forums discussions, but not ancillary controversial, non ebook political discussions, which is where most of the problem stems from.

Certainly you are welcome to that perspective, but I think any topic should be open for discussion in the lounge. It is currently open for all sorts of things that are non-ebook such as "light a candle" etc. and is specifically titled "Friendly banter and discussions unrelated to e-books." I'd prefer to keep it that way.

If the owners moderators want to create a separate political or religious or other forum that's fine to, but when you start restricting what can and can't be said that's when it all starts to fall apart. It is much better for the members to know the rules and play by them than to start banning stuff.

[Donnageddon]

Really Kenny? You are ready for the pedophile priest And the pope cover up threads? You are ready for the G W. Bush was a mass murder threads?

You are comfortable with those threads taking up space on a forum for ebooks?

This is not about freedom of speech, this is a privately owned forum, and your speech, whether you like it or not, is limited here. You can spout any political or religious diatribe almost anywhere you want, but the ownership of this forum has every right to limit what topics are discussed here.

The discussions where the line is drawn for the betterment of mobileread, and it's users.