Open Source culture to blame for e-book piracy! - Page 4

Bremen Cole · 01-03-2010, 09:04 AM

I care not for beating this dead horse again..... but

To me it is simple. If I buy something, it is mine. Therefore I will rip the DRM from it with glee and read it on the device of my choosing. If something is not available (out of print for example), or I want an ebook of a book I already bought, I turn to the torrent. I do not wish to participate in the growing pains of the industry. When the dust settles (and it will) I wager it will all be a moot point. The entire entertainment industry is going through this, and in the end a new business model will emerge.

tompe · 01-03-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Libertarian isn't a label I usually associate with Chomsky, but if that's how he chooses to self-identify, so be it.

Libertarian Socialism is one variant of libertarianism. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

for an explanation of what it is.

etienne66 · 01-03-2010, 09:26 AM

From what I can tell the publishing industry wants to take away "fair-use" if they can get away with it. If they truly wanted to succeed with DRM then they should do the following:

Allow you to loan your ebook an unlimited number of times. Unlike only once like the nook. Of course while your book was on loan you would not have access to it, but unlike a real book you wouldn't have to worry about your friend forgetting to return it to you as you would set an expiration date.
You should have the right to sell or give away your rights to an ebook.
They should put in the same amount of effort on the proofreading and formatting as for a printed copy. Yet anther reason people strip the DRM is to simply repair badly formatted books.
They should not take away our right to use text-to-speech software. If they want to sell an audiobook version then make it worth peoples while by having a good voice actor, actress or even the author read the book as TTS will probably never be as good as this.
Offer ebooks at a reasonable price. Sure I can see them charging more for a newer ebook and then decrease the cost over time. If you are currently selling the paperback for US $9.99 then the ebook should probably be the same, but after a while that ebook better be far less than a new paperback. If the ebook has been out there for more than two years it really shouldn't be over US $5. But then again I should be able to pick up a used ebook at halfpriceebooks.com(domain is up for sale) for less than that after a while.
Setup a central repository that is stored in local libraries to store the rights and guarantee that it will always be available. If the library where your rights are stored is closing then they should be required by law to transfer your list of rights to another library of your choosing. I imagine at first most people would have to be using a small number of libraries as not all of the smaller libraries would be able to have a DRM rights server. But I don't think it would be too dissimilar to the Overdrive library that so many are now using.

This is not a question of whether the technology is there or not as all of this would be easy to implement although setting up the infrastructure might take a little bit of time, it could easily be done within a year and only require minor firmware or software updates to existing readers.

Sure there would still be people who would strip the DRM and pirate ebooks, but if you take away most of the bad parts of DRM you are more likely to have fewer people doing so.

Etienne66

m-reader · 01-03-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etienne66

This is not a question of whether the technology is there or not as all of this would be easy to implement although setting up the infrastructure might take a little bit of time, it could easily be done within a year and only require minor firmware or software updates to existing readers.

Etienne66

The technology is there, for sure, but you are assuming there is a single governing body for all publishers which will oversee this project.
Unfortunately, there's competing interests, copyright holders, royalty receivers (and I'm not only talking about authors here).
They all have to have their say. This means design by committee and we all know how well that works.

etienne66 · 01-03-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m-reader

The technology is there, for sure, but you are assuming there is a single governing body for all publishers which will oversee this project.
Unfortunately, there's competing interests, copyright holders, royalty receivers (and I'm not only talking about authors here).
They all have to have their say. This means design by committee and we all know how well that works.

Sadly, I must agree with you. I see it all too often. And those that would be on that "committee" would just assume that "fair use" never existed anyway. And even if there were a few unbiased members on that "committee" there would be someone shoving money in their pockets to get them to change their minds.

I think it far more likely that DRM will just go away at some point as they will never agree on terms that would allow it to succeed.

As to whether open source culture is the root of ebook piracy. To me that is a bit like saying libraries are a result of the open source culture. Let's face it, those that do steal ebooks off of the darknet might read the ebook they stole only once, if at all. Many probably don't have the money to go and buy the ebook and would have gone to the library to borrow it anyway, much as they would have a hundred years ago. Those that want an artist to continue writing will pay for a copy of the book, if they can afford it.

Etienne66

Jellby · 01-03-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Open Source culture to blame for e-book piracy!

Yeah, right... just as Democracy is to blame for corruption

Barcey · 01-03-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m-reader

An interesting article discussed on Slashdot this morning.

I couldn't read the CNN article (WebSense is on), but the discussion on Slashdot is robust as always

The original CNN article wasn't bad. Slashdot was just picking up on the one quote. The article does go on to say that despite digital file sharing Apple's iTunes is thriving.

I also like how the article end....

Quote:

However, some evidence suggests that authors' and publishers' claims of damage from illegal piracy may be overstated.

Recent statistics have shown that consumers who purchase an e-reader buy more books than those who stick with traditional bound volumes. Amazon reports that Kindle owners buy, on average, 3.1 times as many books on the site as other customers.

Ana Maria Allessi, publisher for Harper Media at HarperCollins, told CNN, "we have to be vigilant in our punishment ... but much more attractive is to simply make the technology better, legally."

E-book technology offers so many positives for both the author and the consumer that any revenue lost to piracy may just be a necessary evil, she said.

"Consumers who invest in one of these dedicated e-book readers tend to load it up and read more," said Allessi. "And what's wrong with that?"

deh5241 · 01-03-2010, 10:25 AM

My sister and I both are ready to buy an e-reader, and I have been reading reviews for days trying to decide which one to buy. I am hoping this thread is the appropriate place to ask a few questions.

My sister and I always share books - one of us buys one, and gives it to the other one to read, and then I sell it on eBay. A salesman from Best Buy said that if we buy a Sony, we can put both of our devices on an account, and then we can both read the books we buy. Is Sony the only company that offers this type of account? And if one of us buys a Sony and the other one a Nook, can the Nook be put on the Sony account, or is it proprietary to Sony readers (provided the format is recognized on both devices, of course)?

Also, if one of us buys a Nook, which allows us to lend one time (provided the publisher allows a one-time share), can we lend it to a Sony ereader? Or can we only lend it to another Nook?

One last question - if I buy a Sony and want to convert all of my recipes, which are separate .docs, is it time consuming to put them into a Sony, because don't I have to run them through some kind of program?

Any help/advice you can give us would be appreciated.

ficbot · 01-03-2010, 12:00 PM

I really think the publishers need to get with the program here and understand that the goal should be to make it as easy as possible for customers to get and read the content. So they need to end geographical restrictions and DRM. I can't think of any business that has ever thrived from turning away customers with money in hand.

As for me, I do not file share but I do remove DRM and I see nothing wrong with it. I just want to be able to read it on my Sony. So for me to pay money for the ebook and read it myself on my Sony, even if that means stripping the DRM, I really do not see how that costs anybody a sale they otherwise would have had or hurts the author in any way. If there is some sort of crackdown where I can NOT remove the DRM, it will mean I cannot read the book on my device, I would therefore not buy it and the author would lose out on that sale. Of course, it would be easier if they would just sell me a usable file and not make me go to this effort

But until then, I am willing to make the effort myself and if they ever try and stop me, it will mean less money for them since I will not buy books I cannot use.

kennyc · 01-03-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

.. If there is some sort of crackdown where I can NOT remove the DRM, it will mean I cannot read the book on my device, I would therefore not buy it and the author would lose out on that sale.

Of course, it would be easier if they would just sell me a usable file and not make me go to this effort

But until then, I am willing to make the effort myself and if they ever try and stop me, it will mean less money for them since I will not buy books I cannot use.

So the question that sometimes arises is, would you pay more for a non-drm copy than for a drm copy?

Jack Tingle · 01-03-2010, 01:20 PM

Within reason, yes. I'll pay more for an unrestricted file, and less for a restricted file. As it is today, I don't buy DRMed files. Paper still works fine, and I can donate it to the local library when I'm done.

This should cause publishers to be afraid, but I'm not sure they're smart enough to realize this. Sell me an ebook, and it eventually disappears into a CD-ROM somewhere as a backup. Sell me a pbook, and many people will read it without paying you any more money.

Regards,
Jack Tingle

jasonkchapman · 01-03-2010, 02:05 PM

Does no one realize that libraries pay the publishers for each book in their collection? And that they pay a lot more than the consumer does? Sure, a lot of people can read that same book, and the per-user cost trends toward zero, but money does change hands.

I point this out only because borrowing a book from a library is often equated with snagging an e-book off the darknet, but it's not the same. It's only equivalent in the micro view, that of the reader. In the macro view, it's different. With publicly-supported libraries, budget requests are supported by citizen participation. Higher budgets mean more services and more books purchased for the collection. Borrowing the book from the library supports the entire library system and serves to compensate the publisher and author, albeit at a lower rate than retail does.

rogue_ronin · 01-03-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick101

There are some interesting lessons to be learned from the case of the (excellent, award-winning) movie Sita Sings The Blues, created by Nina Paley. In essence, Nina gives the movie away free so as not to have to pay several hundred thousand dollars for some soundtrack songs whose rights are owned by corporations. In doing so, she's fuelled a fascinating (ongoing) debate about all of these issues. Google her or the movie to find out more.

Oh - and watch the movie it truly is wonderful

Seconded! It is great.

My thesis project was a play based on the Ramayana, but from Ravana's perspective. It also used popular song.

Sita Sings the Blues is a perfect example of what should be possible, but generally isn't, with remixing culture.

m a r

KarenH · 01-03-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deh5241

My sister and I both are ready to buy an e-reader, and I have been reading reviews for days trying to decide which one to buy. I am hoping this thread is the appropriate place to ask a few questions.

My sister and I always share books - one of us buys one, and gives it to the other one to read, and then I sell it on eBay. A salesman from Best Buy said that if we buy a Sony, we can put both of our devices on an account, and then we can both read the books we buy. Is Sony the only company that offers this type of account? And if one of us buys a Sony and the other one a Nook, can the Nook be put on the Sony account, or is it proprietary to Sony readers (provided the format is recognized on both devices, of course)?

Also, if one of us buys a Nook, which allows us to lend one time (provided the publisher allows a one-time share), can we lend it to a Sony ereader? Or can we only lend it to another Nook?

One last question - if I buy a Sony and want to convert all of my recipes, which are separate .docs, is it time consuming to put them into a Sony, because don't I have to run them through some kind of program?

Any help/advice you can give us would be appreciated.

I don't own a Sony, so can't address how their store works specifically. But if you and your sister both get readers that support ADE ePUB, you can register both readers on the same ADE account and you will be able to share any secure ePUB books you buy (from any ebook store). You can do the same thing with the Kindle store at Amazon.com if you buy Kindles, but since that is tied to an Amazon account it might not be a good solution.

mollybo · 01-03-2010, 07:07 PM

She can register up to six readers on the Sony account and share any books bought through the Sony account - but the Sony books tend to be more expensive. I use unswindle to strip the drm off kindle books that are cheaper than Sony books, which she can do and then convert them using calibre from .mobi to .epub and share with her sister.

I think it comes down to what kind of effort you're willing to put into the books. I don't mind stripping and converting files, but a less techie person might be overwelmed by it.

01-03-2010, 09:26 AM	#48
etienne66 Groupie Posts: 185 Karma: 9832 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas, US Device: Kindle 2, PRS-600 Black, PRS-650 Red, Adam w/ Pixel Qi(pre-ordered)	From what I can tell the publishing industry wants to take away "fair-use" if they can get away with it. If they truly wanted to succeed with DRM then they should do the following: Allow you to loan your ebook an unlimited number of times. Unlike only once like the nook. Of course while your book was on loan you would not have access to it, but unlike a real book you wouldn't have to worry about your friend forgetting to return it to you as you would set an expiration date. You should have the right to sell or give away your rights to an ebook. They should put in the same amount of effort on the proofreading and formatting as for a printed copy. Yet anther reason people strip the DRM is to simply repair badly formatted books. They should not take away our right to use text-to-speech software. If they want to sell an audiobook version then make it worth peoples while by having a good voice actor, actress or even the author read the book as TTS will probably never be as good as this. Offer ebooks at a reasonable price. Sure I can see them charging more for a newer ebook and then decrease the cost over time. If you are currently selling the paperback for US $9.99 then the ebook should probably be the same, but after a while that ebook better be far less than a new paperback. If the ebook has been out there for more than two years it really shouldn't be over US $5. But then again I should be able to pick up a used ebook at halfpriceebooks.com(domain is up for sale) for less than that after a while. Setup a central repository that is stored in local libraries to store the rights and guarantee that it will always be available. If the library where your rights are stored is closing then they should be required by law to transfer your list of rights to another library of your choosing. I imagine at first most people would have to be using a small number of libraries as not all of the smaller libraries would be able to have a DRM rights server. But I don't think it would be too dissimilar to the Overdrive library that so many are now using. This is not a question of whether the technology is there or not as all of this would be easy to implement although setting up the infrastructure might take a little bit of time, it could easily be done within a year and only require minor firmware or software updates to existing readers. Sure there would still be people who would strip the DRM and pirate ebooks, but if you take away most of the bad parts of DRM you are more likely to have fewer people doing so. Etienne66

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01-03-2010, 09:04 AM	#46
Bremen Cole Wizard Posts: 1,115 Karma: 2718 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Texas Device: iPad	I care not for beating this dead horse again..... but To me it is simple. If I buy something, it is mine. Therefore I will rip the DRM from it with glee and read it on the device of my choosing. If something is not available (out of print for example), or I want an ebook of a book I already bought, I turn to the torrent. I do not wish to participate in the growing pains of the industry. When the dust settles (and it will) I wager it will all be a moot point. The entire entertainment industry is going through this, and in the end a new business model will emerge.

01-03-2010, 10:25 AM	#53
deh5241 Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: None	My sister and I both are ready to buy an e-reader, and I have been reading reviews for days trying to decide which one to buy. I am hoping this thread is the appropriate place to ask a few questions. My sister and I always share books - one of us buys one, and gives it to the other one to read, and then I sell it on eBay. A salesman from Best Buy said that if we buy a Sony, we can put both of our devices on an account, and then we can both read the books we buy. Is Sony the only company that offers this type of account? And if one of us buys a Sony and the other one a Nook, can the Nook be put on the Sony account, or is it proprietary to Sony readers (provided the format is recognized on both devices, of course)? Also, if one of us buys a Nook, which allows us to lend one time (provided the publisher allows a one-time share), can we lend it to a Sony ereader? Or can we only lend it to another Nook? One last question - if I buy a Sony and want to convert all of my recipes, which are separate .docs, is it time consuming to put them into a Sony, because don't I have to run them through some kind of program? Any help/advice you can give us would be appreciated.

01-03-2010, 12:00 PM	#54
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	I really think the publishers need to get with the program here and understand that the goal should be to make it as easy as possible for customers to get and read the content. So they need to end geographical restrictions and DRM. I can't think of any business that has ever thrived from turning away customers with money in hand. As for me, I do not file share but I do remove DRM and I see nothing wrong with it. I just want to be able to read it on my Sony. So for me to pay money for the ebook and read it myself on my Sony, even if that means stripping the DRM, I really do not see how that costs anybody a sale they otherwise would have had or hurts the author in any way. If there is some sort of crackdown where I can NOT remove the DRM, it will mean I cannot read the book on my device, I would therefore not buy it and the author would lose out on that sale. Of course, it would be easier if they would just sell me a usable file and not make me go to this effort But until then, I am willing to make the effort myself and if they ever try and stop me, it will mean less money for them since I will not buy books I cannot use.

01-03-2010, 01:20 PM	#56
Jack Tingle Punctuation Fetishist Posts: 557 Karma: 1070000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The Bluest Commonwealth In East America Device: Kindle PW, Nexus 7 (2013), Galaxy S5 phone, Galaxy Tab 4 8.0	Within reason, yes. I'll pay more for an unrestricted file, and less for a restricted file. As it is today, I don't buy DRMed files. Paper still works fine, and I can donate it to the local library when I'm done. This should cause publishers to be afraid, but I'm not sure they're smart enough to realize this. Sell me an ebook, and it eventually disappears into a CD-ROM somewhere as a backup. Sell me a pbook, and many people will read it without paying you any more money. Regards, Jack Tingle

01-03-2010, 02:05 PM	#57
jasonkchapman Guru Posts: 767 Karma: 2347 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC Device: Sony Reader, nook, Droid, nookColor, nookTablet	Does no one realize that libraries pay the publishers for each book in their collection? And that they pay a lot more than the consumer does? Sure, a lot of people can read that same book, and the per-user cost trends toward zero, but money does change hands. I point this out only because borrowing a book from a library is often equated with snagging an e-book off the darknet, but it's not the same. It's only equivalent in the micro view, that of the reader. In the macro view, it's different. With publicly-supported libraries, budget requests are supported by citizen participation. Higher budgets mean more services and more books purchased for the collection. Borrowing the book from the library supports the entire library system and serves to compensate the publisher and author, albeit at a lower rate than retail does.

01-03-2010, 07:07 PM	#60
mollybo Connoisseur Posts: 79 Karma: 2896 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Rocket eBook, Gemstar, and Kindle 3	She can register up to six readers on the Sony account and share any books bought through the Sony account - but the Sony books tend to be more expensive. I use unswindle to strip the drm off kindle books that are cheaper than Sony books, which she can do and then convert them using calibre from .mobi to .epub and share with her sister. I think it comes down to what kind of effort you're willing to put into the books. I don't mind stripping and converting files, but a less techie person might be overwelmed by it.

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