Do you like how ePub books look on your Sony Reader? - Page 4

JSWolf · 12-14-2009, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

I love the fact that I was able to liberate my LRX books but I hate how ePub looks. This is one of my ePud purchased books. I removed the DRM and did nothing else. The text was to small in the small size and it left a huge left & right margin on the medium size font. Since I stopped buying LRX from Sony, I usually only buy AWZ, Mobi, or Lit. If this is the standard, I hope Amazon never moves to it because it sucks. I went to Calibre and convert the book to LRF in order to read it.

How an ePub is formatted has to do with the individual ePub. I've seen many different ePubs that are formatted from this is crap, to this is not too bad. That is why I always strip the DRM and then edit the CSS so it's how I want it and not how someone else thinks I do.

Dr. Drib · 12-14-2009, 08:37 AM

I think a lot of the epub I've seen - especially on the Sony - looks pretty crappy, which seems to be a dominant position (at this moment) here on this thread. I much prefer the "cleaner" look of the formatted LRX files, and many Sony owners also feel the same way and have voted against epub and for the Sony LRX files.

Arguments [debate] that epub files do not look good due to how an individual decided to code the formatting seems specious at best, and downright wrongheaded in its assumptions. I don't see this as an excuse for the lousy-looking files that seem to be so prevalent in epubs.

I don't believe that I should have to go in and hand-edit something for it to look nice.

More importantly, I'll be voting with my money.

Don

sirmaru · 12-14-2009, 10:15 AM

I downloaded one sample ePub book from BN to use with my Sony and compared it to my old Sony BBeB books on my PRS 505.

In my opinion the ePub sample is more crisp in the fonts and larger looking even at the same settings as the BBeB books.

I ordered a PRS 900 and have not yet received it but hope it looks as good.

scottjl · 12-14-2009, 01:07 PM

i guess i'm lucky, since my 600 is only a week old and i've only bought one ebook to date (which came in epub only) i can't comment either way. i don't have any problems reading the book and having justified margins isn't a huge concern of mine, i'm way too used to reading things on the web anyway. i bought my 600 to read text, not really look at a page of text and critique if it looks pleasant or not or worry about margins.

Ham Cannon · 12-15-2009, 05:04 PM

I like the lack of margins and I don't mind the font, but the ragged right justification drives me bonkers. I prefer buying books from other sources anyway, so I've gotten into the habit of stripping the DRM off the epubs (a hassle to figure out initially but now it only takes a minute) and then using Calibre to convert it into a .lrf: I set it to use a 10-point font and otherwise just tell it to use the Sony Reader standard settings, and the end result looks just how I like it. And that way, I still have the DRM-free epub on my system to move over to a different brand of reader if I ever get one.

The whole process is a pain though, I hope Sony releases a firmware update that at least fixes the justification.

igorsk · 12-16-2009, 11:09 AM

Do we have any examples at all of epubs from Sony store that look as good or better than LRX?

Wetdogeared · 12-16-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

Do we have any examples at all of epubs from Sony store that look as good or better than LRX?

Not without any "tweaking", which is a bit daunting when you know nothing about CSS and you're looking at over 5,000 lines of CSS coding, and know next to nothing about XHTML and TOC's and whatever else is involved.

benham · 12-16-2009, 11:50 AM

Oh, the poll didn't specify Sony epubs. I haven't tried them. The Shortcovers epubs and the ones downloaded from here have been fine.

zelda_pinwheel · 12-16-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Arguments [debate] that epub files do not look good due to how an individual decided to code the formatting seems specious at best, and downright wrongheaded in its assumptions. I don't see this as an excuse for the lousy-looking files that seem to be so prevalent in epubs.

In what way is this specious or wrongheaded ? On the contrary, it is a fact that epub can support much more complex styles than any other format, including lrf / lrx. Therefore it is eminently possible to make a really good-looking epub book if you bother to learn how to do it properly, and therefore it is important to lay the blame where it belongs when publishers are charging full price for such shoddy workmanship. If you have any doubt, take a look at any of jellby's books, for example this one (to take an example at random), or in fact this version of "Three Men in a Boat" which I made. Any of those books are well-made with proper code and styles and require absolutely no intervention to make them readable.

The reason people are complaining (and rightly so) about the epubs from the sony store is because the PUBLISHERS have not bothered to learn how to make proper epub files. There is nothing wrong-headed or specious about that, it is just a fact. The *only* elements which are currently common to all epubs displayed on sony devices is the absence of fully-justified text, and the page numbers displayed in the margin. Every other detail is defined using a css style rule and therefore is either a deliberate choice on the part of the person who formatted the book to begin with, or the result of the incompetence of the person who formatted the book to begin with.

As I said before, there is absolutely no excuse for this, particularly from professional publishers charging full-price for their books, and I encourage everyone to write and express their dissatisfaction to the publisher whenever they get one of these poorly-made books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wetdogeared

Not without any "tweaking", which is a bit daunting when you know nothing about CSS and you're looking at over 5,000 lines of CSS coding, and know next to nothing about XHTML and TOC's and whatever else is involved.

A classic example of bad code. There is no reason to have 5000 lines of CSS rules for a novel !

Wetdogeared · 12-16-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igorsk

Do we have any examples at all of epubs from Sony store that look as good or better than LRX?

Quote:

Originally Posted by benham

Oh, the poll didn't specify Sony epubs. I haven't tried them. The Shortcovers epubs and the ones downloaded from here have been fine.

I just looked at my David Weber ePubs from Baen and they look quite good to me, just a bit of overlapping of the ePub page number which can easily be fixed by adjusting the right margin.

brainycat · 12-16-2009, 05:02 PM

I guess I'm just not as picky. I have no complaints about epub, and I convert all my files to epub for forward compatibility. I know for a fact that I can read a lot faster with my PRS-600 than I can with a pbook, and that's the most important factor for me.

Angst · 12-16-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainycat

I guess I'm just not as picky. I have no complaints about epub, and I convert all my files to epub for forward compatibility.

I agree. I avoided buying at the Sony store because I was limited by the proprietary format. Now that I'm not limited I expect to buy more books there, but only if the price is competitive. So far it hasn't been.

LaCamera · 12-16-2009, 11:10 PM

I ran across this article online, and although it doesn't speak exclusively to the topic of ePubs, it does resonate with the spirit of this discussion.

If the question is, "Why does e-book formatting matter at all?", this article attempts to answer it.

Why E-Books Look So Ugly

jamadams · 12-17-2009, 03:44 AM

I tried my first epub file last night. The lack of right justification makes the book look horrible. It really should look like it does in a printed book. When did you last see a regular printed novel without full-justification?

Kind of wierd since the preview software shows the book fully justified.

Converted to LRF. Much better. LRF gets my vote.

Amalthia · 12-17-2009, 01:58 PM

LRF gets my vote as well. I can't read epubs on my Sony PRS-505 because the page numbers in the margins drives me nuts, the lack of justification drives me nuts a little less. So no matter how well formatted the epub may or may not be it does not matter with the built in glaring flaws in the design.

I do read stories over 1000 pages long on my device and you lose screen real estate if you have to adjust the right margin to accomodate numbers.

View Poll Results: Which format do you prefer on your Sony Reader?
LRX	63	54.78%
ePub	52	45.22%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

12-14-2009, 08:37 AM	#47
Dr. Drib Grand Sorcerer Posts: 45,311 Karma: 59447733 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Peru Device: KINDLE: Oasis 3, Scribe (1st), Matcha; KOBO: Libra 2, Libra Colour	I think a lot of the epub I've seen - especially on the Sony - looks pretty crappy, which seems to be a dominant position (at this moment) here on this thread. I much prefer the "cleaner" look of the formatted LRX files, and many Sony owners also feel the same way and have voted against epub and for the Sony LRX files. Arguments [debate] that epub files do not look good due to how an individual decided to code the formatting seems specious at best, and downright wrongheaded in its assumptions. I don't see this as an excuse for the lousy-looking files that seem to be so prevalent in epubs. I don't believe that I should have to go in and hand-edit something for it to look nice. More importantly, I'll be voting with my money. Don Last edited by Dr. Drib; 12-14-2009 at 11:59 AM.

12-14-2009, 10:15 AM	#48
sirmaru Wizard Posts: 2,426 Karma: 6561538 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Kindle PW 2013, HDX 2013, Galaxy S5 2014	ePub better than BBeB (lrx) for Sony I downloaded one sample ePub book from BN to use with my Sony and compared it to my old Sony BBeB books on my PRS 505. In my opinion the ePub sample is more crisp in the fonts and larger looking even at the same settings as the BBeB books. I ordered a PRS 900 and have not yet received it but hope it looks as good.

12-16-2009, 11:10 PM	#58
LaCamera Junior Member Posts: 3 Karma: 334 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Sony Reader 505	I ran across this article online, and although it doesn't speak exclusively to the topic of ePubs, it does resonate with the spirit of this discussion. If the question is, "Why does e-book formatting matter at all?", this article attempts to answer it. Why E-Books Look So Ugly Last edited by LaCamera; 12-16-2009 at 11:15 PM. Reason: typo

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12-14-2009, 01:07 PM	#49
scottjl Reader of Books Posts: 1,632 Karma: 2697 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	i guess i'm lucky, since my 600 is only a week old and i've only bought one ebook to date (which came in epub only) i can't comment either way. i don't have any problems reading the book and having justified margins isn't a huge concern of mine, i'm way too used to reading things on the web anyway. i bought my 600 to read text, not really look at a page of text and critique if it looks pleasant or not or worry about margins.

12-15-2009, 05:04 PM	#50
Ham Cannon Enthusiast Posts: 38 Karma: 100 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Pocketbook 360, Sony Reader 505, Kobo Touch, iPad 1, iPhone 4	I like the lack of margins and I don't mind the font, but the ragged right justification drives me bonkers. I prefer buying books from other sources anyway, so I've gotten into the habit of stripping the DRM off the epubs (a hassle to figure out initially but now it only takes a minute) and then using Calibre to convert it into a .lrf: I set it to use a 10-point font and otherwise just tell it to use the Sony Reader standard settings, and the end result looks just how I like it. And that way, I still have the DRM-free epub on my system to move over to a different brand of reader if I ever get one. The whole process is a pain though, I hope Sony releases a firmware update that at least fixes the justification.

12-16-2009, 11:09 AM	#51
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	Do we have any examples at all of epubs from Sony store that look as good or better than LRX?

12-16-2009, 11:50 AM	#53
benham Guru Posts: 882 Karma: 5565888 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Townsend, WI Device: Palm TX, PRS-505 (BLUE)	Oh, the poll didn't specify Sony epubs. I haven't tried them. The Shortcovers epubs and the ones downloaded from here have been fine.

12-16-2009, 05:02 PM	#56
brainycat PocketBook 302 FTW! Posts: 141 Karma: 398 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Seattle Device: Pocketbook 302, upgraded from PRS-600	I guess I'm just not as picky. I have no complaints about epub, and I convert all my files to epub for forward compatibility. I know for a fact that I can read a lot faster with my PRS-600 than I can with a pbook, and that's the most important factor for me.

12-17-2009, 03:44 AM	#59
jamadams Connoisseur Posts: 59 Karma: 712900 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Hull, UK Device: Kindle PW, Kindle Keyboard, Kobo Touch, Sony PRS-505, 600 & Librié	I tried my first epub file last night. The lack of right justification makes the book look horrible. It really should look like it does in a printed book. When did you last see a regular printed novel without full-justification? Kind of wierd since the preview software shows the book fully justified. Converted to LRF. Much better. LRF gets my vote.

12-17-2009, 01:58 PM	#60
Amalthia Wizard Posts: 1,180 Karma: 32196 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Anchorage, AK Device: Sony Reader PRS-505, PRS-650, PRS-T3, Pocketbook HD2	LRF gets my vote as well. I can't read epubs on my Sony PRS-505 because the page numbers in the margins drives me nuts, the lack of justification drives me nuts a little less. So no matter how well formatted the epub may or may not be it does not matter with the built in glaring flaws in the design. I do read stories over 1000 pages long on my device and you lose screen real estate if you have to adjust the right margin to accomodate numbers.

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