Publishers 'completely divided' over e-book pricing

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Absolutely true. We have tried to use InDesign's export to ePub feature and its output ain't pretty. Considering that Adobe has adotoped and helped design the ePub standard and is pushing ADE, you would think that Adobe would solve this problem. Perhaps that will be the big inducement to upgrade to InDesign CS5. One thing, though, is true: version CS4 is a major improvement over CS3.

You aren't kidding. I've only tried it out a few times, but the ePub export in CS4 certainly isn't what I'd hoped it would be when we upgraded.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

This part I don't get at all. Why should it be more expensive? It doesn't cost any more to produce (arguably cheaper), and the person is not getting anything tangible, plus have to deal with DRM that makes it difficult or impossible to do what they could with a paper book.

Although I agree about that part, the part that really bothers me is

15% suggesting parity pricing

Parity with what? People in the industry, probably above even readers, should be well aware that hard cover prices are considerably different from paperback. So which should ebooks have parity with?

Personally, I'd like to see ebooks with parity pricing to used books-but I doubt if that's gonna happen. Any more the most frequent reason I'll decide not to buy an ebook is because I can find it cheaper in paper version-usually as a used book, but not always.

[rhadin]

I've used (and own) Framemaker, QuarkXPress, Pagemaker (no longer own), Ventura, and InDesign. By far the best of the lot for long documents like books was Ventura. I only stopped using it a year ago when InDesign CS4 was released. Even though Ventura is now approximately 10 years away from its last upgrade, it still can outperform -- in most instances -- any of the other programs. Alas, it is out of date and unsupported, so it now sits on my computer unused.

But of those still living and breathing, InDesign is, I think, the best of the bunch. Quark's biggest failures were its cost and its support. To properly do a nonfiction book in Quark required the purchase not only of the base program for $800, but thousands of dollars of add-ins. I nearly had heart failure when I realized that I had nearly $10,000 invested into Quark-related software. At least with InDesign CS4 you can get by without any plugins and Ventura (which cost $250) was a complete package requirng no add-ins at all.

Now if only Adobe would teach InDesign how to do ePub . . .

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

It wouldn't surprise me either. We already see it in books, with deluxe signed limited edition hardcovers in slip cases, trade hardcovers, trade paperbacks, and mass market paperbacks. This is simply an extension of the concept into other media.

"Director's Cut", anyone?

Selling something like a boxset of the ebook and the limited edition hardback would seem like a logical combination, you get the one for the whole collecting and feel of books thing and one for the everyday use and enjoying the content.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

It's an ebook. It's Mine Till Midnight by Lisa Kleypas. It's sold in print with a list of $7.99 and in e-format with a list of $14.00

dd "Hot for the


You can add "Hot for the holidays" to the bad-proofed book list. It isn't free and it doesn't belong to a small publisher.

[petermillard]

And James Clavell's 'Tai-Pan' (Random House); so desperately bad it read like it went straight from OCR to print without anyone looking at it, let alone proofreading.

To their credit, Fictionwise gave me a refund.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by petermillard

And James Clavell's 'Tai-Pan' (Random House); so desperately bad it read like it went straight from OCR to print without anyone looking at it, let alone proofreading.

It probably did.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by rhadin

I've used (and own) Framemaker, QuarkXPress, Pagemaker (no longer own), Ventura, and InDesign. By far the best of the lot for long documents like books was Ventura. I only stopped using it a year ago when InDesign CS4 was released. Even though Ventura is now approximately 10 years away from its last upgrade, it still can outperform -- in most instances -- any of the other programs. Alas, it is out of date and unsupported, so it now sits on my computer unused.

I have an old friend who makes his living these days producing POD versions of public domain stuff from Project Gutenberg, and still uses Ventura to do his typesetting. He's familiar with its quirks and can make things come out as he pleases.

But of those still living and breathing, InDesign is, I think, the best of the bunch. Quark's biggest failures were its cost and its support. To properly do a nonfiction book in Quark required the purchase not only of the base program for $800, but thousands of dollars of add-ins. I nearly had heart failure when I realized that I had nearly $10,000 invested into Quark-related software. At least with InDesign CS4 you can get by without any plugins and Ventura (which cost $250) was a complete package requirng no add-ins at all.

For serious work, I concur. It certainly appears to be what all of the major publishers are moving to, if they don't use it already.

Now if only Adobe would teach InDesign how to do ePub . . .

Given that Adobe is the major proponent pushing ePub as the ebook standard, I have to assume they are working on that. I'm just a bit surprised it isn't better developed in InDesign than it is.
______
Dennis

[fugazied]

The publishers who said it should be more expensive are the ones without the infrastructure and knowledge of how ebooks work. They are probably thinking 'ok the costs are higher initially', or they are thinking 'the risks are higher' and worried about the ebooks being copied so want more compensation for that risk. As previously mentioned, some publishers have no way to easily create the ebooks (in a technological sense) in the way they currently process books.

In a way I don't mind them profit goughing initially, because that will show up in their profit margins and they will embrace the ebook formats more solidly.

It's only a matter of time before publishers realise the future is good and ebooks will be more profitable for them compared to traditional books (less overheads).

I do feel sorry for traditional book stores though, they will have to undertake some clever changes to their services to stay alive. I do like the idea of bookstores changing into coffee shops with lounges where you can browse one off paper copies of ebooks then purchase the ebook.

[Xerxes]

Barnes and Noble need only pop a kiosk in their stores with maybe usb cable and some script software that'll automatically upload your purchase to your Reader. And when wifi come more prevalent, there is that. But there are also I huge number of people who don't want your future of digital books. Some people are married to the idea of media in hands.

Bookstore have little to fear I think for a long time.

[ahi]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Now if only Adobe would teach InDesign how to do ePub . . .

Isn't that like having your grade-schooler make her Christmas family picture to show her schoolmates using Autocad?

- Ahi

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Bookstore have little to fear I think for a long time.

They wish.

Bookstores are in trouble across the board. Borders is largely on life support. Barnes and Noble is searching for ways to retain customer loyalty, and was rumored to be interesting in acquiring Borders, save that no one could say where they would get the money to make the acquisition. Independent bookstores are largely a dying breed unless they have a specific niche.

What are the issues facing them? Book sales flat or down, competition from discount retailers like Costco and Sam's Club, and Amazon.com.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by ahi

Isn't that like having your grade-schooler make her Christmas family picture to show her schoolmates using Autocad?

Not at all. One barrier to wider production of ebooks is getting ebook making to be part of the publisher's standard workflow. Right now, must publishers use Adobe InDesign to do typesetting and markup, and generate the PDF files the printer uses to create plates from. If InDesign produced decent ePub output, presto! Save As PDF for pronter, Save As ePub for eBook. And ePub contains all the needed metadata, so it can be the starting point other ebook formats as required, with conversions being done automatically by scripts.

Adobe InDesign producing usable ePub is what we want.
______
Dennis

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

They wish.

Bookstores are in trouble across the board. Borders is largely on life support. Barnes and Noble is searching for ways to retain customer loyalty, and was rumored to be interesting in acquiring Borders, save that no one could say where they would get the money to make the acquisition. Independent bookstores are largely a dying breed unless they have a specific niche.

What are the issues facing them? Book sales flat or down, competition from discount retailers like Costco and Sam's Club, and Amazon.com.
______
Dennis

Wow... Didn't know this. I frequent these stores for Graphic novels, quick picks and the like. Plus, I'm always getting coupons from both BN and Borders. There's also the Starbucks in BN that I like to read and study in. I just never seen the life blood leaving these stores yet. With Borders, I can, but mainly because their prices are higher and the atmosphere isn't as... I can't describe it.

Looking at the Market Cap, I don't think BN would have much problem acquiring Borders. Also didn't they just announce a deal with Plastic Logic and Irex to start offering readers of their own? Also didn't they acquire Fictionwise. I think they have a lot more life left than you give them credit for.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

Wow... Didn't know this. I frequent these stores for Graphic novels, quick picks and the like. Plus, I'm always getting coupons from both BN and Borders. There's also the Starbucks in BN that I like to read and study in. I just never seen the life blood leaving these stores yet. With Borders, I can, but mainly because their prices are higher and the atmosphere isn't as... I can't describe it.

Looking at the Market Cap, I don't think BN would have much problem acquiring Borders. Also didn't they just announce a deal with Plastic Logic and Irex to start offering readers of their own? Also didn't they acquire Fictionwise. I think they have a lot more life left than you give them credit for.

As you can see, they are trying hard to get into the ebook business. Physical bookstores will be a niche market for specialty and collectors' items in the not too distant future.