Frustrated with all the recent posts by Kindle-only authors

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by WFT

My problem is: which e-book format should I select?

While I have considerable computer experience, I do not own an e-book reader and I have never investigated e-book formats. I know there are a bunch of them, including ebup, pdf, and Kindle among others, but I know almost nothing else about them.

Strongly suggested: Mobi (which is the Kindle format) and ePub; that makes them accessible to almost all the dedicated ebook readers & mobile devices. And many devices read one, but not the other. (Kindle reads Mobi. The Sony Reader reads ePub. The iPhone will read either, with the right app.) Other formats are somewhat optional, but tend to be easy--if you get a well-designed HTML/XML file of your book, converting it to eight ebook formats is only a tiny bit more work than converting it to two.

PDF, as you've noticed, is problematic. One way around that is to design PDFs for the six-inch ebook screen, but 3.5x4.5" (90x120mm) pages are difficult to work with, if you're not used to them. And people used to doing layouts for print forget that ebooks don't need such large margins; there's no reason to leave room for fingers on the actual pages. (However, some people prefer margins.)

After the basic page size issue, there are font size issues--I like small fonts (9pt, most of the time), but many people prefer 12 pt, even on the small pages. I'll give up on books with fonts that are too large for my reading comfort; I love Feedbooks' philosophy and formatting, but I can barely tolerate their books. Other people will skip books designed with small fonts, even if they have zoom or reflow ability; both of those are annoying in practice.

PDF is good if you know your target readership and can tailor to their preferences. If you want a wide range of readers, the scrolling/flowable formats allow them to read ebooks with their own customized settings.

An additional problem with PDFs is that experienced ebook devotees don't trust them--there are so many badly-made ebooks that we shy away from paying for them, especially from an unknown author. (Badly made: uncompressed, not tagged for reflow, no/bad metadata, no bookmarks/table of contents, print-resolution images, letter-sized pages made with Word's default settings, etc.)

[WFT]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

An additional problem with PDFs is that experienced ebook devotees don't trust them--there are so many badly-made ebooks that we shy away from paying for them, especially from an unknown author. (Badly made: uncompressed, not tagged for reflow, no/bad metadata, no bookmarks/table of contents, print-resolution images, letter-sized pages made with Word's default settings, etc.)

Thanks for all the details in your reply, Elfwreck, including the above quote. All of that was very helpful.

Could you please go into more detail about the "badly made" items you listed?

1. Uncompressed? I gather this is because of limited storage on the reader?
2. not tagged for reflow... I'm not sure what you mean by this. You mean the text doesn't flow without a particular command?
3. no/bad metadata... Tell me what you look for in metadata and where you expect to find it in the file.
4. no bookmarks/table of contents... In other words, you're looking for links in the table of contents that take you directly to the first page of each chapter?
5. print-resolution images... If the file is made to use on a reader device rather than a printer, why is a print-resolution image important? In my own case, the only images I have are for the cover and the author snapshot, but still it would be good to know more about this issue you raised, particularly in light of your first item: compression.
6. letter-sized pages made with Word's default settings... This one particularly surprised me. Given the smaller screen size, I would have thought that either the page size needed to be smaller to fit the screen or else that it was irrelevant on a reader. I didn't use Word to type my story. I used OpenOffice swriter instead. Still, the question of page size seems quite important, so I'd appreciate more details.

Remember, as I said in my first post, I don't own any kind of e-reader (other than my laptop), so I don't know the limitations of any of them at all! The more details you can provide, the better.

[WFT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I only mind that when it's in a limited format range such as AZW only or PDF. I'd like for once someone to come on and say it's available for every reader.

As an author, you touch upon my own concern and an important reason why I posted to this thread. I don't own any e-readers, but I see scores of formats listed on this site's e-book wiki page. How can I possibly know which formats I need in order to make my novel compatible with every reader? Do I need all of the available formats listed on that wiki page?

[WFT]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

PDF, as you've noticed, is problematic. One way around that is to design PDFs for the six-inch ebook screen, but 3.5x4.5" (90x120mm) pages are difficult to work with, if you're not used to them. And people used to doing layouts for print forget that ebooks don't need such large margins; there's no reason to leave room for fingers on the actual pages. (However, some people prefer margins.)

I forgot to ask in my earlier reply: How do I resolve this small ambiguity in your suggestion? Margins or no margins? If I add a margin, how small should it be to satisfy both camps? Thanks for telling me that the page size of a six-inch screen is 3.5x4.5. That's something I didn't know, again because I don't own one, so it makes it nearly impossible for me to know how much (or little) margin to include and still make it comfortable to read on an e-reader.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by WFT

[*]Uncompressed? I gather this is because of limited storage on the reader?

Probably. Uncompressed PDFs take more space unnecessarily.

[*]not tagged for reflow... I'm not sure what you mean by this. You mean the text doesn't flow without a particular command?

Some PDF readers are able to reflow the text. This, however, is more of a hack than a feature, and I don't know if it's possible to create tagged PDFs without Adobe's Acrobat.

[*]no/bad metadata... Tell me what you look for in metadata and where you expect to find it in the file.

Basic metadata are title and author. These should be present not only in the main book text (what you view and print), but in the "file properties", that are used for sorting and displaying data in the library, before you open a book.

[*]no bookmarks/table of contents... In other words, you're looking for links in the table of contents that take you directly to the first page of each chapter?

Not only that, but the "bookmarks" are a kind of off-line table of contents, which allows one to jump to any chapter (or similar section) without having to go to the page where the in-line table of contents is.

[*]print-resolution images... If the file is made to use on a reader device rather than a printer, why is a print-resolution image important? In my own case, the only images I have are for the cover and the author snapshot, but still it would be good to know more about this issue you raised, particularly in light of your first item: compression.

Print-resolution images are a waste of space and resources (remember ebook readers usually have limited memory and processor) for something that's going to be displayed in a 800×600 6-inch screen.

[*]letter-sized pages made with Word's default settings... This one particularly surprised me. Given the smaller screen size, I would have thought that either the page size needed to be smaller to fit the screen or else that it was irrelevant on a reader. I didn't use Word to type my story. I used OpenOffice swriter instead. Still, the question of page size seems quite important, so I'd appreciate more details.

That's probably the most worrying problem with default PDFs. If they are created with letter- or A4-size page settings, they will display very poorly on 6" screens, with lots of unused space and a tiny type. You are right, page size needs to be smaller, but too often one encounters PDFs that are not created with smaller page sizes.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by WFT

I forgot to ask in my earlier reply: How do I resolve this small ambiguity in your suggestion? Margins or no margins? If I add a margin, how small should it be to satisfy both camps? Thanks for telling me that the page size of a six-inch screen is 3.5x4.5. That's something I didn't know, again because I don't own one, so it makes it nearly impossible for me to know how much (or little) margin to include and still make it comfortable to read on an e-reader.

Just to throw a little murkiness on the size matter; for example, the Sony 505 have a status bar at the bottom, which takes up about 4-5 mm, so the actual page size is 9x11.5 cm (3.6x4.5 inches) (12 cm = 4.7"), but other ebook readers have fullscreen view.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

Mostly, I'm frustrated when people come here and their first and only post is hawking their self-published book.

But that's okay... there's a place for that here, too. (Maybe it needs a forum with a clearer name, such as "Book Announcements" or something... mod?) Self-publishing is one of the things this site is about.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

PDF, as you've noticed, is problematic. One way around that is to design PDFs for the six-inch ebook screen, but 3.5x4.5" (90x120mm) pages are difficult to work with, if you're not used to them.

More important than that, I think, is to set your PDF generator to create "tagged" PDFs (in the print options box, check ISO 19005-1 compliant, or PDF/A). Tagged PDFs can reflow on quality non-standard-sized PDF readers, and that often solves the multiple-screen-size issue (3.5x4.5" isn't the only size out there... formatting for that will only serve to tick off those with other screen sizes). Tagged PDFs largely solve the margins issue, because the screen will reflow the text and adjust the margins (or remove them) accordingly.

I can (and often do) read a tagged PDF, originally created in letter size with margins, on my iPaq PDA with no trouble, thanks to reflowing. The file size will be larger, but the quality is well worth it.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by WFT

As an author, you touch upon my own concern and an important reason why I posted to this thread. I don't own any e-readers, but I see scores of formats listed on this site's e-book wiki page. How can I possibly know which formats I need in order to make my novel compatible with every reader? Do I need all of the available formats listed on that wiki page?

Which formats you use is up to you. You should research your market, determine which formats they prefer, and which are the most popular; then you have to decide how much of your target market you're going to try to reach... all of them... the most of them that is practical to you... etc.

Then check out the conversion software for the different formats, and decide which ones you want to work with. Some are incredibly easy. Some will make you tear your hair out. Pick which ones (and how many of them) you are willing to deal with, to create quality e-books.

I did that research, and decided 6 formats (including "roll your own" RTF) effectively covered my market, and were within my scope of practicality. Your scope may only include 2 or 3 formats. But as long as they are well-done, even 2 or 3 formats may be plenty.

[Ea]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

More important than that, I think, is to set your PDF generator to create "tagged" PDFs (in the print options box, check ISO 19005-1 compliant, or PDF/A). Tagged PDFs can reflow on quality non-standard-sized PDF readers, and that often solves the multiple-screen-size issue (3.5x4.5" isn't the only size out there... formatting for that will only serve to tick off those with other screen sizes). Tagged PDFs largely solve the margins issue, because the screen will reflow the text and adjust the margins (or remove them) accordingly.

Thankyou

[emellaich]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

But that's okay... there's a place for that here, too. (Maybe it needs a forum with a clearer name, such as "Book Announcements" or something... mod?) Self-publishing is one of the things this site is about.

I have no problem with self-publishing, and announcements of books here. My only concern is when it involves deceit. Someone shows up with no posts, and their very first activity is to tout some great book they just happened to stumble across -- yeah, right .

Ideally there would be some forum for book announcements here. And each new thread to that forum would automatically have a poll attached. That way everyone who reads the book can give it a rating. Then if you could search the forum based on ratings and tags ...

Hmm, sounds like custom software to me.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by WFT

1. Uncompressed? I gather this is because of limited storage on the reader?

1. Yes. While most of the current ebook readers have plenty memory or allow memory cards, there are still people who read on PDAs, which have less memory. And some PDFs go from 6mb to 2mb when properly compressed; 4mb is a substantial amount of wasted space.
   
   

   not tagged for reflow... I'm not sure what you mean by this. You mean the text doesn't flow without a particular command?

   The other replies covered this. Without tagging, when PDF readers try to reflow the text to fit a small screen, they often put a hard return at the end of every line in the original. However, tagging's not perfect, and PDFs can wind up wrapping several small lines of dialogue or poetry into a single paragraph when they reflow.
   
   This is fixable with Acrobat Pro and an insane amount of detail work. (I say "insane amount" as someone will blithely agree to proofread 400 pages of OCR work for fun.)
   
   

   no bookmarks/table of contents... In other words, you're looking for links in the table of contents that take you directly to the first page of each chapter?

   In the Sony Reader, bookmarks in the PDF become the Table of Contents in the Reader. I gather some/all other ebook readers have similar features. Links in the TOC page inside are also nice, but not as important. Bookmarks are nice, but not expected. But we'd love more authors to be aware of them and use them, especially for nonfiction books. Many word processing programs (Word, WordPerfect, Open Office) have ways of marking chapter headers so they'll automatically convert to bookmarks in the PDFs.
   
   

   print-resolution images... If the file is made to use on a reader device rather than a printer, why is a print-resolution image important? In my own case, the only images I have are for the cover and the author snapshot, but still it would be good to know more about this issue you raised, particularly in light of your first item: compression.

   Print resolution is not important; it's a nuisance. However, many ebooks are released with the original print-res cover, because the publisher is releasing their print-ready book to the public. (Sometimes with the original metadata... Suvudu's Settling Accounts by Harry Turtledove has the title listed as "Turt_0345464052_2p_all_r1.qxd" and the author as "Karen Benyo." That means the book was made in Quark Xpress, and the program was registered to Karen Benyo.)
   
   Occasionally, a 600dpi print-res picture is nice; it can be useful to have an uncompressed image for conversion to other formats, and of course it's great if you're going to print the file. But for on-screen reading, especially on a tiny reader like a PDA or cellphone, 150dpi is plenty, and we'd much rather use that 5mb for something else.
   
   

   letter-sized pages made with Word's default settings... This one particularly surprised me. Given the smaller screen size, I would have thought that either the page size needed to be smaller to fit the screen or else that it was irrelevant on a reader. I didn't use Word to type my story. I used OpenOffice swriter instead. Still, the question of page size seems quite important, so I'd appreciate more details.

Page size is the endless debate for PDF reading. Nicely-made PDFs that fit the page size of the reader are wonderful... but for that, you have to know what device they're reading on. The e-ink readers all start by squishing the PDF to fit the viewable screen, so letter-sized, untagged PDFs are an exercise in applied masochism.

And while 6" readers currently dominate the market, there are a growing number of 5" readers (it's my impression that PDFs made for a 6" screen will look at least okay on a 5" screen) and 8" or larger readers, and those are problematic, in that the PDF will grow when placed on the screen, which means 12pt fonts become 14 or 16 pts, which may be too big for reading comfort for a lot of people. (Besides, the point of the larger screen is that you can fit more content on it, not just expand small pages to fit.)

Remember, as I said in my first post, I don't own any kind of e-reader (other than my laptop), so I don't know the limitations of any of them at all! The more details you can provide, the better.

Originally Posted by WFT

As an author, you touch upon my own concern and an important reason why I posted to this thread. I don't own any e-readers, but I see scores of formats listed on this site's e-book wiki page. How can I possibly know which formats I need in order to make my novel compatible with every reader? Do I need all of the available formats listed on that wiki page?

The free ebook forums here will tell you which formats are most common for actual use. Or head over to Smashwords and look at the filetypes they offer.

ePub and Mobi are definitely most prevalent, with LIT as a strong third runner. PDB is also common, and that gets confusing, because several filetypes have PDB extension. Mostly, people mean eReader or PalmDOC format. Anything that reads eReader should read PalmDOC as well. (It's the Palm OS equivalent of a text file; it has no formatting.)

HTML and RTF are not exactly an "ebook formats," but they're easily convertible to the reader's format of choice.

QUOTE=WFT;564288]I forgot to ask in my earlier reply: How do I resolve this small ambiguity in your suggestion? Margins or no margins? [/QUOTE]

I'm attaching two PDFs (and offering thanks to Cory Doctorow for making so much content freely available); one how I'd format for reading for myself, and the other how I might format it with bigger margins for an unknown reader.

There's no absolute answer, and that's why so many of us are anti-PDF as an ebook format. It's hard to convert (well) to other formats, and hard to make changes to make it work better... there's no simple "just make the font bigger/smaller" option.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by emellaich

I have no problem with self-publishing, and announcements of books here. My only concern is when it involves deceit. Someone shows up with no posts, and their very first activity is to tout some great book they just happened to stumble across -- yeah, right .

Okay, yeah... that gets kinda old fast. But those posts are usually pretty obvious, and easy to ignore.

Originally Posted by emellaich

Ideally there would be some forum for book announcements here. And each new thread to that forum would automatically have a poll attached. That way everyone who reads the book can give it a rating. Then if you could search the forum based on ratings and tags ...

Well, book announcements could add a poll to indicate customer interest and satisfaction, with selections like:

Read it and loved it!
Not bad... keep it up!
Eh... don't quit your day job.
Back away from the keyboard, nice and slow.
No, thanks... not interested.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

[SNIP]
Well, book announcements could add a poll to indicate customer interest and satisfaction, with selections like:

Read it and loved it!
Not bad... keep it up!
Eh... don't quit your day job.
Back away from the keyboard, nice and slow.
No, thanks... not interested.

I love the idea of having a poll. If we had a book announcements forum, perhaps the poll could be added automatically to each thread. Even better would be to have TWO polls -- one (as above) for reader opinions on content, plus a second for reader opinions about format choices, formatting, production quality, etc. Options in that second poll might include:

Great selection of formats.
Not available in a format I can use.
Please dump the DRM so I can convert to a format I can use.
Too many typos (scan-os, spelling errors, whatever)
Missing or garbled content.
Super-well proofed and formatted.

and so on. This second poll should probably be multiple choice.

Xenophon

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Can they sell through Feedbooks?

feedbooks will be adding a commercial section soon. "watch this space."

Originally Posted by Xenophon

I love the idea of having a poll. If we had a book announcements forum, perhaps the poll could be added automatically to each thread. Even better would be to have TWO polls -- one (as above) for reader opinions on content, plus a second for reader opinions about format choices, formatting, production quality, etc. Options in that second poll might include:

Great selection of formats.
Not available in a format I can use.
Please dump the DRM so I can convert to a format I can use.
Too many typos (scan-os, spelling errors, whatever)
Missing or garbled content.
Super-well proofed and formatted.

and so on. This second poll should probably be multiple choice.

Xenophon

we do already have a thread rating system ("rate this thread" at the top of each page), which might be a useful thing to use for this, at least in part. it's already in place so it can be used right away. you can see the rating in the forum page and also at the top of each page after you vote.